A finely tuned set of beliefs sensing a roll of tape

About: my reply to Laughing Squid

#belief #sense #sensing

#timing #TimeingIsKing


  1. belief
  2. sense
  3. sensing
  4. world
  5. do
  6. otherness
  7. btw
  8. PlasticHabit
  9. ego
  10. timeing
  11. TimeingIsKing
  12. will
  13. DoIt
  14. deed
  15. timing
  16. LOA


Si says
You are really making this all much more complicated than it needs to be. You can control your beliefs. Simply adjust them, your perception and your entire reality experience will change accordingly, including any and all circumstances affected. It’s that simple and that easy. Don’t try so hard to figure it out, think it through, and model it, just do it!  

Seth says
… truenull,

… except that the “cirumstances” in the #world do not change at all (unless perhaps you #do something) … only your “experience” changes.  

You seem not to distinguish your experience from what happens in the world … you simply do not believe in #otherness … even though you will jump up and down and claim that you do.

Experience is subjective … it is all inside you.  Change one of the brackets in the gif and the system will experienc the tape quite differently … but that will not change what was happening outside when the tape was put on the track. 

Si says
Obviously circumstances in the world do change. Ho’oponopono is one very well documented proof of that. There are many others. Your assertions are your own wishful thinking, not actual results. Results, by me, by others, show exactly the opposite of what you assert. When you do any process that changes worldly circumstances without doing, then you will have had the experience yourself. Since you have not had the experience yourself, you are not really in a position to weigh in on this subject. A person who doesn’t ever take a ride in an airplane can say anything about the experience of riding in an airplane they want, even that it is a group fantasy, but it doesn’t make it true until they go ride in one.

Seth says
sure okay. 

But if i had the exact same experiences of  doing a “process that changes worldly circumstances without doing” which you have described here … just exactly according to your descriptions … i still would not conclude that my beliefs changed the external circumstances. 

#btw since we are on the topic of anecdotal descriptions … let me relate an experience that i had this morning.   Usually in the morning as part of my #PlasticHabit i put fresh socks on my feet in preparation for going into the kitchen to make the coffee.  Well i was laying in bed meditating on an attitude for the up comming day and making my coffee and breakfast of prunes and cereal.   I suddenly noticed that i was holding a fresh pair of socks in my hand.  The only way that could have happened was if i had reached into my drawn and grabbed the sock … but i do not remember any thought that instigated that action, nor for that matter the action itself … but i do remember all the other thoughts that morning after i woke up … after all i was consciously meditating.  Now is that proof of action without thought?   I do not know … anecdotal descriptions are notoriously suspect → … eventhought it did give me pause to reflect.

Si says
That is not proof of action without thought. The thoughts could have been part of a habit formed years ago about your morning routine. There was a thought that matched the event, of that you can be sure. Sometimes it is easy to find the thought, sometimes it is not. Usually it is vague. But the thought is always there, however separated in time from the event it may be.

Seth says
well all habitual actions are instances of action without thought.  there is no reason to exclude them.  especially when so much of human action is habitual … excluding habitual action would be like punning out a can of worms from what they were eating. 

but i was looking for an example of a intentional action that was provably not proceeded by thought … where the spring to action could not have been anything that would pass for a thought.  and #btw all of my actions in my morning ceremony are quite intentional as well as by habit … which is the whole point of doing them that way.   it was a fact that i was surprised by finding my socks in my hand.   anyway i am not sure i found a convincing example. 

Si says
I was not in any way excluding habitual actions. Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote. More and more lately you seem to skim over what I write and put your own spin on it, like this time, and yesterday when you thought I was saying Ho’oponopono was a process related to personal lessons, etc. I think you are doing this because more and more I am nailing it and presenting incongruities in your own reality relative to your box … and that is making you more sensitive at the edge of your box and the skimming and misinterpretation is helping you keep your box intact. You, I am quite sure, will say it is something else, something more complicated, something better able to be inside the bounds of your box and ignore that there is a tight box you keep you attention in that is getting harder and harder to believe in as the greater reality seeps steadily in. You will probably even dismiss all this as parent → child transaction and/or #ego too … even though it is simple observation from where I stand. So go ahead, do all that, and then still re-read what I wrote, because it does not exclude habitual actions. Not even slightly.

Seth says
okay well i am sure all of that is going on over there in your mind … er, how could it not, after all you wrote it.   but i’m sorry ….

over here … all i was trying to do in this thread is see if we could determine if a thought is always proceeded by an action.   you seem to talk as if  it must.  i think it does not happen in that simplistic one-to-one sequence.  

so how does it happen?

i think there is a fabric, a network of changing thoughts … and there is a network, a fabric of changing events.  
there is this thought network inside of me and there is this event network inside of me too.  
the two networks are only connected by virtue of their binding, otherwise they change independent of each other.

there are thought networks outside of me and event networks outside of me too.  they are connected to each other and my internal network by the same binding processes. 

assuming that there is a one-to-one sequence of an internal thought and a internal event is kind of just silly. 
it is just as silly to think there is a one-to-one correspondence between an internal thought and an external event. 

personnaly, over here, i strongly suspect that the nature we are trying to get at, ….  is in the #timeing  #TimeingIsKing My individual #will is not so much about what is done, but rather when it is done.  When i #DoIt is not controlled (or necessarily preceeded by) a thought.  Rather it is elemental.  I just do it when i do it. 

Seth says
so you asked me for a example of a #deed not preceded by it’s corresponding thought.   Well every time i just #do something arbritrarialy … not looking for a reason to choose this or that … then the deed is not proceeded by it’s corresponding thought. 

For example there are two different things that i could do now.   Those two thing i just chose and that was a preceeding thougs in this network of thoughts  … but which one i have not thought about at all except to say that it is possible to do.  Now i will do one of them and come back here and tell you which one.  okay, i reched for my coffee cup and drank a sip of nice strong coffee laced with a bit of milk.   I just did that one without thinking … my body chose … not my thoughts.  The other one was to take my prune dish into the kitchen … which i think now in advance of it i will do … #done.

but now i realize that is it ridiculously early here to start this day … hmmm what to do … what to do … null

Si says
Yes. When you do something and when you thought it are not time bound. They are vibration bound.

Si says
You seem to have a simplistic idea of when you are thinking. When you say “Those two thing i just chose”, well, choice is thinking. Many thoughts are so fleeting that the conscious mind does not easily recognize them. That is the first thing I discovered when I started meditating back in the mid 1980’s … I discovered all those thoughts I never knew I was having. In the deliberate attempt to not have thought (meditation) all the fleeting and under thoughts we have that we don’t realize we have when we are only paying attention consciously, start coming to light. Today I am very aware of all of those, both because I have practiced noticing them for many years now, and because I understand that thought is a vibration and the vibration itself leaves a signature one can recognize, much like a smell, even when the thought itself went by so fast and deep it was not seen in our current state of observation. We can still smell it’s vibration when we know what thoughts smell like.

But yes, if you are only calling the army boot thoughts trampling through your surface awareness thoughts, then it will seem like lots of things are happening that you don’t think about.

I guess it is my fault I have been assuming that simply because you grew up in an enlightened environment, basic things like meditation and awareness of the full range of thoughts one has, are something you have experience and knowledge of. In fact, in thinking about it, I am not sure I have ever heard you or my Mom talk about meditation, even though it is the first basic step in consciousness journeying in all the different schools of enlightenment I have ever come across … even Abraham is a huge advocate for meditation just as a means of coming to understand the vibrational relationship of #LOA to our own thoughts.

Seth says
oh i am quite as aware of my thoughts and my actions as are you.   there is no evidence in what you say or do, to the contrary.  your thought to the contrary of that was just for yourself.

i have  been studying this from other aspects especially the way you describe it.   i am almost convinced that we are doing the same things, but you are calling one aspect of it “thought”, and i am distinguishing that aspect of it as “not thought”.  The difference is only in the language … not in the thing itself.

Then too there is a grand difference between you and me.  Your thoughts are stronger and more closely bound to your actions than are mine.  I’ve known that for a long time, having studied your thoughts and actions over several decades.  Believing that, it easy for me to understand why you describe things the way you do.

Seth says
and then this really happened …

We were outside taking turns throwing a soft ball against a pillow … a contest to see who threw it the best.  When it was my turn my hand slipped under the ball as i thred,  and so i did not get a good grip behind the ball,  and i made a puny throw that did not even get to the pillow.  You were standing behind the pillow.  I went up to the pillow and literally begged to do it again … i knew i could keep my hand behind the heft of the ball and not let it slip.  And so i started again … but the pillow seemed too close … i pushed it further away to give me some more sapce … it was still to close … i pushed it further away wanting to get enught space for a tremendous swing.  But when i went to move my arm, it would not move at all … i even tried to move it with my other arm … but it just was just not connected for movement.

Then i woke up and realized that throwing a ball would not be necessary.

Si says
Yes. Dreams are where we experience the boundaries of our boxes as actual physical occurrences, difficulties, and ineffectiveness. I have very similar dreams myself, in relation to my own boxes, which are in a different place from yours.

Mark de LA says

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