Silent Thought

Presumably CFR assigned to Gregory a study of silent thought. I find silent thought fascinating in the light of NLP (neuro linguistic programming).

Tags

  1. silent thought
  2. thought
  3. behavior
  4. intention
  5. my comments
  6. philosophy

Comments


Mark de LA says
I like the concept of intention being the meta-data about behavior. It also seems like the overlap between thought & will.

Mark de LA says
seth 2005-12-26 08:54:27 2326
Is there any problem with making this item public? It is interesting, but it is a hassel to keep logging in and out to this group to participate in this dialogue.
Well, generally I wanted to hype the group to those whom I have exposed the password. Make something interesting to find there. I also don't particularly like the group material exposed to the general public. I will, since you request & the ID problem has not been solved yet, keep this item open for a while.

Mark de LA says
Mark 2005-12-26 08:55:33 2326
behave Look up behave at Dictionary.comc.1410, from be- intensive prefix + have in the sense of "to have or bear oneself in a particular way, comport." O.E. behabban meant "to contain." Behavior is 1490, from havour, altered (by influence of have) from aver, from O.Fr. aveir "to have." Behaviorism coined 1913 by U.S. psychologist John B. Watson (1878-1958).
It's like one of those words which is hard to define like "be".

Mark de LA says
Magor 2005-12-26 12:08:42 2326
- subject thread breach  carry on to "free will" if you like (or NOT).



Mark de LA says
seth 2005-12-26 11:28:08 2326
I made a comment regarding "free will" here url http://thenonist.com/index.php/weblog/comments/free_will_by_degrees/. I defined "free will" as the ability to form intentions. This definition may need some work.
Interesting, but I think begs the question. Is your ability to form intentions "free" or not? Is it constrained by mere DNA, environment or past history OR can you form an intention totally independent ?

Seth says
Magor 2005-12-26 11:34:36 2326
seth 2005-12-26 11:28:08 2326
I made a comment regarding "free will" here url http://thenonist.com/index.php/weblog/comments/free_will_by_degrees/. I defined "free will" as the ability to form intentions. This definition may need some work.
Interesting, but I think begs the question. Is your ability to form intentions "free" or not? Is it constrained by mere DNA, environment or past history OR can you form an intention totally independent ?
Well, like the nonist, i think that saying that something behaves totally independant of it's environment, its DNA, and it's history is an absurd proposition.  I think looking for "free will" there is like looking for dry water ... it is a catagory error of the gravest sort.  Rather think, as the nonist mentions in terms of degrees of freedom.  Forming intentions allows more degrees of freedom than not being able to form them.  A rock cannot form intentions.  A thermostat cannot form intentions, it has only the intentions that it was designed with by its manufacturer.

Seth says
I made a comment regarding "free will" here url http://thenonist.com/index.php/weblog/comments/free_will_by_degrees/. I defined "free will" as the ability to form intentions. This definition may need some work.

Mark de LA says
Mark 2005-12-26 07:12:29 2326
For me sometimes I can hold onto a thought & be conscious of it & be conscious of holding onto it, but not remember it later (it's the volcano effect). Also, sometimes I notice that the thought contains a will component - which gets carried out unless counteracted or verbalized. The unverbalized seems to drift very fast into the cosmic ooze. I can remember when & where I had the thought & not what it was ~ probably because I was in that state of looking at thoughts without verbalizing for quite a while.


Seth says
Mark 2005-12-26 08:56:47 2326
Mark 2005-12-26 08:55:33 2326
behave Look up behave at Dictionary.comc.1410, from be- intensive prefix + have in the sense of "to have or bear oneself in a particular way, comport." O.E. behabban meant "to contain." Behavior is 1490, from havour, altered (by influence of have) from aver, from O.Fr. aveir "to have." Behaviorism coined 1913 by U.S. psychologist John B. Watson (1878-1958).
It's like one of those words which is hard to define like "be".
It may be hard to define, but it is not hard to identify.  For me, "behavior" taggs any action a organism actually does. 

For example, intention may not be behavior.  Rather it is meta data about behavior.  That might explain some of the tempest swirling around the concept of intention in behavioral psychology circles.  One attributes intention to actions.  One may be right or wrong about such attributions.  A person may even be right or wrong about their own attributions of intention to their own actions.  Nevertheless the behavior of attributing intention is something which makes humans stand apart from other animals.  We do it, and as far as i know, other animals do not.  If we did not attribut intentions, such things as legal contracts and other aspects of jurisprudance would be absurbities.  But they are not. 

Seth says
Silent thought or unvocalized though is even more private that vocalized thought. It's like some parts of your own being cannot access it, hense it is harder to remember.

Mark de LA says
seth 2005-12-26 07:55:10 2326
source: mark's comment above
sometimes I notice that the thought contains a will component
For me will is action, or as it applies to humans, behavior.  As such, thought is just as much behavior as waving your arms.  The only big distinction is that the one behavior is private and cannot be easily observed by other humans.  I think the component that you are talking about is actually intention.  There are behaviors that have more or less of a component of intention. This is where my philosophy diverges from traditional behavioral science which does not recognize intention as being real.  But I do.  Some behaviors are intentional and others are not so intentional.  Give up that, and you truly give up your humanity. 
I get intention versus carrying out the intention. I however grok thought as perception & as perceptive behavior (somewhat conscious). This perceptive thought is somewhat like surfing the cosmic web rather than the electronic one of the Earth.  Some of what people call thought may be mechanical or memory. There is also a will or intention driving & channeling thought ~ otherwise it would be hard to solve a problem. Separating thought, feeling & will from eachother was one of GW's methods (mostly the cube working,) presumably to combine them again for some intent (purpose.) Behavior to me is just an abstract of existing & doing like time is somewhat an abstract of change.

Seth says
source: mark's comment above
sometimes I notice that the thought contains a will component
For me will is action, or as it applies to humans, behavior.  As such, thought is just as much behavior as waving your arms.  The only big distinction is that the one behavior is private and cannot be easily observed by other humans.  I think the component that you are talking about is actually intention.  There are behaviors that have more or less of a component of intention. This is where my philosophy diverges from traditional behavioral science which does not recognize intention as being real.  But I do.  Some behaviors are intentional and others are not so intentional.  Give up that, and you truly give up your humanity. 

Mark de LA says
Some call the unverbalized the pre-verbal as well.

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