Paranoia ? - comment 75085

Seth says ...
let me look at one of your presentation thoughs to grasp what you are talking about ….


  1. shucks


Si says
I had to fork this or we would have exceeded 5 comments and I would have seen no comments anywhere.

Seth says
well if you are on the though url itself, you never see comments.  

except that we should see comments, if the author wants us to see them, just as in a normal thought.  

Si says
Put those comments over here. I can’t see them anymore, except in the news!

Si says
… and I disagree, as you well know. I designed the “news” to be “most relevant” to what is happening “that you are interested in”.

You are only happy with groups and river right now because “there are only 3 of us”. As soon as there are many, a thought will go by in the river in the blink of an eye. You will miss most things that happen in the river, and just randomly see an occasional snapshot, but you will see what you are interested in, what you subscribed to, in the comment news and thought news.

I understand your love for the river and for group feeds, but you just don’t seem to “run the experience in your mind palace” of what they will feel like when there are even just 7 people here. Try running that in your mind palace. You will see that you will miss more than half of what you would be interested in.

Seth says

i could do that null

alternatively you could make an options on a presentation thought to allow comments just like a normal thought … much more flexible.

Seth says
sorry i like to digest things in the complete context in which an author presents them …  not in a truncated form that a developer thinks will garner my attention.   check this out at G+ and facebook.  you are zigging where everybod is zagging … and it is not working at least for me.

Si says
No. Please do not try and design this.

Please stick to talking about your reasons for using presentation thoughts and the different contexts people will see them in and what the needs are in those contexts.

I will design how that is implemented based on many factors you have no awareness of, such as where and how the rules are defined, and especially keeping this all working well on mobile platforms. There is way more to take into account than just “put a setting there ...”.

Si says
Until you use your mind palace to actually see what the river, and groups, will be like with many people here, you are just blowing steam seth.

You designed “the river context” and “how it works”. Not me. You designed in a limitation that will cause it to stop working when there are about 5 to 7 people. Run that, you will see!

When you say “what google does” you are not talking about “your river”, you are actually talking about my “river news feed”, because that does work like google. Google does not show you, anywhere, all the things over 1 million people are doing!

Seth says
in a way you have not even considered the biggest question relative to comments on presentations …

and that is comments by guests. 

me thinks you should add that to the mix now because it may dramatically affect your other design choices.

yes i want to have the ability as an author to control what comment others see. 

when one is looking at the thought logged into the domain, then i see no reason that it should not look and behave exactly as a normal thought … execpt that it should always show that is is a presentation.

Seth says
i am not so very sure that the facebook model of having hoards of people in a domain is where i am going.   these domains will be more useful to a small group.   when they grow … they should naturally split into others … or at least other groups.

Si says
Well I don’t want that. I want the ability to “present” to logged in users too, not just guests. But I will consider how that point is taken into consideration.

Guest comments don’t matter. We simply don’t have them because we have no way to manage them at this time. No way to delete comments by obnoxious anonymous people. We can’t have guest comments without that.

When we have guest comment ability, it will find it’s own balance.

We can stick with understanding how user comments happen in the different presentation contexts.  

Seth says
and i hang out on G+ a lot recently.   There you see the entire post and read it in the river.  And there there are hoards of people there.

so i don’t need my “mind palace to predict this” …. i have seen it with my eye balls.

and there the autor has the contro of what the viewer sees of comments.  

although they made some recent changes which i have yet to totally digest in regards to how comments are shown.

Si says
… also, along with this, how are you going to see what your “presentation” looks like to others? That needs something easier than logging out or having multiple accounts.

Si says
Nope. Whatever you think you are seeing, it is NOT the same as the FBI river transported to google. You are seeing feeds with your filters applied firstly, and then an occasional post by someone else, according to googles idea of what you might be interested in. You are not anywhere seeing the raw posts of others zooming along at a rate of thousands of posts per second like our river would be at google!

It matters not if you can see the whole post, or the snapshot of it … that is not the issue. The issue is what posts are in the view.

Seth says
so when useful filters emerge for the group or domain apply them to the river or to the group … er, just like G+.

not to some truncated version of it  which is always an extra click away.

it does matter if i can see the whole post or a snapshot of it.  

Si says
As I said. You designed the river, not me. And this has never been discussed about it. I bring up the same thing, every time it comes up, and this is the first time you have suggested changing how the river works.

Always before, you wanted to see everything happening at the domain there, because that is your giggy thing to do. Which, of course, is impossible as a site grows.

Anyway. Yes. For the river to be useful, it would have to be just like the river news feed, only full posts. I still wouldn’t use it. I have no idea what you mean by “an extra click away”. My river news feed is not an extra click away, it is always in my side bar. It is the river that is not only an extra click away, but requires a whole not more scrolling!

Seth says
#shucks i almost remember bringing this up last time we discussed it. 

to see the post in the natural form in which the autor intended you to digest it, you need to make an extra click.

i never read the river notifications … i just use them to know there is something in the river that i have not seen … to see them, i go to the river to see them the way the author intende me to see them.

and i seldom try to decypher the snapshot of a comment in your news feed either … much better to read it in the thought itself.

Si says
Yea, so what? I can easily tell if I want to see the post by what is in the news. That way I don’t have to fill my brain with all the junk I don’t want to read in the natural form. Keeps life clean and simple. I can simply click on the things I am interested in and “see them in full” … with all their comments … something that is never possible in a group feed because the comments, sometimes 100’s of them, would bury the posts.

YOU have to do the extra “click” in order to see the comments. That’s worse!

Seth says
yeah i do that too … and many times just clear the feed … but if i want to read it … i want to read it in the context in which the author projected it.

Si says
… and so you just click on them in the sidebar. One by one, as you are ready to read each.

But who cares? The point is the river is useless as it is. Which is not really even related to presentation thoughts. So why are you harping on the river?

Seth says
nope i almost never  “click on the the news feed one at a time”.   except if they are sparsely distributed in many thoughts by both you and mark. 

same way i read facebook.   usually there i click on the ones that interest me … one at a time … , and then clear the feed. 

and the primary reason i clik are 1) who said it, 2) on what thought title, and 3) in what group.

the actual content i can’t remember ever acually reading … unless it was very short indeed.

Holmes says
Well, I just go to the bottom of the new news, click on the first at the bottom. Read all the new stuff (stuff in yellow) on that thought. Skip over all of those in the news to the next thought I haven’t read and click on it. So easy. I can “catch up” with over a hundred new thoughts and comments by you and mark in only a few minutes doing it that way.

But again, this is not related to presentation thoughts. That is what we need to understand. Or more specifically, what are your needs for them? Why are you using them instead of normal thoughts? Why do you like them specifically? What are you expecting related to others in presentation thoughts?

Seth says
okay ill write more about that in “(private thought)” in group fbi  … might be after the cafe, people are gathering.

Si says

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