A Market Driven Solution to Affordable Health Insurance

Take as many high risk people out of the regular insurance pool as necessary to make the rates go sufficiently down.

Companies woud be allowed to insure those high risk people under government subsidized health insurance plans at the same cost to the customer as the regular insurance policies.

That makes the money invested by the government go directly to driving down health insurance costs.  The more money invested, the more the cost for everyone will go down.

Here is a graphic that shows how it works.  The government would pay the exact costs (no insurer profit) as it occurs over the normal primium level of coverage.   The insurer is shielded from the extr risk so they must lower premiums to compete with other companies.
Why would that not work?  

No partisan bickering or other off topic distractions, please!

#aca #HealthCare #HealtInsurance #AHCA #solutions #insurance #acturarial #PossiblePolitics #marketDriven #risk 


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Si says
It won’t work simply because it has no loophole by which a special interest can make extra money. As you wrote it, it will level the playing field. Modern economics don’t allow that.

Don’t believe me? Find ANY level playing field where some special interest does not make extra money somehow. Really … I bet you can’t find one.

No committee in congress will propose such a law. Now add a bunch of line items so that some special interests or another can make 10 to 30 percent off the top, and then you could have a working bill!  

Seth says
there actually are plenty of places in the framework for special interests to put loopholes …
especially in defining a high risk customer.

in any case i do not believe the assumption that our congress will not pass legislation which is not leveraged for special interests … especially if it provides a real solution to the problem … and at the same time does not go all the way to the afeared “socialized” medicine.  

the #politics of the moment is in fact begging for a real solution. 

Si says
Okay. You can construct such a verse and pull us there. Go for it I say!

It’s not this verse is all. If you really want it, you are going to have to think it true and allow it.  

Seth says

Seth says
Well yes, most people in the  current verse assume that there are no #solutions …
hence you are right, “it is not this verse”.  
The current verse just keeps cycleing that which is not woorking and
that which will not be allowed by the people in charge of the government null.

But if you think about it null, …
  • and if some #acturarial expert analized this solution and predicts that it will work,
  • #Trump and other #republicans and even some #democrats could support it, because it is a business solution and would actually make the insurance industry grow,
  • and yet will allow people to choose their own insurance without government dictating they must.
  • nobody would get left out for preexisting conditions
  • It is #markeDriven  as required by the conservative ethic … refer to context via google.
  • Trump would promote this … it is right up his alley … America would WIN

Mark de LA says
Other than untaxing, the best solution is health savings accounts whereby young people not using it can put away for old age when they might have to use it. Otherwise your solutions sound reasonable for distressed conditions. Get rid of all of Obamacare is a good start.

Seth says
Dialog can take place on the tweet →
………… it is all about the insurance marked itself evening out the #risk. 

This creates the framework in which evening out negotiations can take place.

Seth says

← i don’t know if others can watch the progress by clicking on ... 

Si says
Okay. But you have to have more than a belief that it can work under projected circumstances.

You will also have to create the belief that you can “get it out there” where it can be considered.
I doubt you have such a belief that is strong enough to win the vibration and select the verse. It is certainly very doable and possible … but only if you personally can muster that belief. I say go for it. You know how to create a belief now.  

Seth says

Seth says
well getting attention in a attention competitive world is a bitch null

Si says
You do realize that your above statement “is a belief”, and not one that will be helping. Right?

Seth says

A graphic that shows how it works.  The government would pay the exact costs (no insurer profit) as it occurs over the normal primium level of coverage.   The insurer is shielded from the extr risk so they must lower premiums to compete with other companies.

Seth says
and finally …

Seth says
trying a different tweet …

Mark de LA says
Other people’s money #OPM always drives up the cost beyond the value.  That’s why health insurance already is high because , unlike the money to buy something coming out of your own pocket you don’t care nor does the provider because “insurance” or the state or the country pays for it.   Try removing health care from the market. Also make the Congress & the elected officials use the same system that the rest of the people have to put up with. 
The sinister side is a move I watched years ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_People%27s_Money 
Another way of looking at it is that insurance is just a tax built on actuarial tabels etc to yield a profit to Big Insurance. (XOR Big Government)

Mark de LA says
HSA (health savings accounts) at least move in the right direction where you manage & get to keep the difference for future needs.

Seth says

Shared on Facebook here, thanks to the new share button null

Si says

Si says
Share count is now 3.

Remember that share counts on FB are the number of likes by unique FB users for this url, no matter where they happen, here, FB, twitter, etc.

Also note that I remove the \#commentId from the url before it is shared. Only thoughts are shared or liked.

Seth says

Seth says
Shared on G+ here.

Si says
Not sure if G+ is worth adding a share button for. In the 5+ years G+ has been around, I still have not come face to face with anyone who actually uses it in America. (and only one person who uses it in Czechoslovakia instead of FB). It’s kind of like everyone includes it, but no one actually goes there and uses it.

Even seth clearly doesn’t care about it much, because tagtalking.net is still in his tag line on G+.  

In any case, would have to go through the app setup process to make G+ share buttons. Not my cup of tea today.  

Seth says
well yeah regrettably there is some truth to that.   G+ is actually better targeted for more in deapth technical or scientific dialogue … it just takes some time and attention to curate the flow … the same with twitter. 

all of these media go with the slogan “you get out of them what you put into them” … very much like #LOA. 

On this particular idea i am just seeing if any of these media is adequate to find  anyone to analyze the situation  seriously on it’s own merits.  #bob of the #SocratesCafe thought about it f2f last night … tried to shoot it down … but in the end could not.  #karen suggested targeting legislators particularly.  

me, i would like to talk with an expert on #acturial science to study the actual #economics of the  solution useing #math… apply some #SupplyDemand and #acturial formulas to it … see if it holds water.

Si says
Just hire a bird to land on a speakers microphone, and connect that to this article. It will go viral.  

Seth says

Seth says

With each passing day our new president is discovering that every big problem he faces is like Obamacare — if there were a good, easy solution it would have been found already, and even the less good solutions are more than his own party is ready to pay for or the country is ready to tolerate.


This solution to #HealthInsurance is fashioned to be ideal for #Trump to actually solve the problem at this moment in history … the only question is whether it would work.  Hence the need for unbiased #math, #economics and #acturial smarts to analyze it.

Seth says
#Bob informed me that there is a Federal law which mandate that whoever shows up at an emergency room must be treated.  #IDoNotKnow it was a federal law. 

Mark de LA says
Yep, doesn’t mean that they have to do a full treatment – just emergency work if it is an emergency.  There is some abuse of the law like people with a cold showing up etc.

Seth says
ok … i wonder how the funding is structured when the patient does not have other insurance?
… i expect the Wikipedia article says.

it does go to establish the principle that there is a minimum level of care
which is funded and guaranteed by tax payers at large. 

Mark de LA says
Not really, it just says that if you have gunshot wounds & are bleeding to death you have a place to go with a possibility of surviving.  There is a code for trauma centers etc.
It’s not market-driven either – it is law driven.

Mark de LA says
The problem with free healthcare for everyone is supply & demand – a market driven reality.  If there is no self-control then resources will lag behind demand.  Not only that, but other countries, particularly neighbors, will flood the system without contributing to it. Ultimately, millennia away, humans will evolve to heal themselves.

Si says
People healing themselves millennia away? Nope. Already happening. Expect it to be common within about a third of the population within 50 years. Don’t look for that in the news though. Main stream news does not report on such things. Go out and discover the real roots yourself. The generation behind the baby boomers is where activity is already happening and once the baby boomers are out of the way things will come online quickly.  

In fact, the issues you guys are discussing is what is driving people to discover their own personal health abilities. If there were practical free health care … it would take much longer for humans take back control over their own health than it is taking now.

Mark de LA says
Is that why you had to go to a doctor or something to get your broken hip fixed? or the tree branch out of your face?

Si says
Getting my hip fixed by a surgeon was in 1999 … 17 years ago in my own personal journey.

For the tree branch in my nose I used 100% personal healing. Never left home. It is completely healed, no scar. Probably would have been a scar if I had gone to a Dr. … they would have used sterilizing ajents and antibiotics which do tend to leave scars.   

And I am not perfect, I am learning every day. I could do much better with my hip today than I did in 1999, but I would still need a surgeon too. I am only saying that many forms of personal healing are not 200 years or more away. It’s already here today for those who are interested. The less surgical ones are more readily available today too. Virtually any disease including cancer is easily treatable with personal means today for anyone truly interested.

Mark de LA says
Anyway the number of people dying of cancer, heart disease, etc. is phenomenal.  Your anecdotal data notwithstanding – seems millenia away from a disease free society. JC managed to cure some but they nailed him. null You are obviously not JC. 

Si says
Your right, I have evolved beyond JC … he was so last 2000 years!  

Yes, many people are dying for all kinds of reasons. The real reason is not the one on their death certificate. The real reason is the same reason we junk an old computer and buy a new one. The hardware and software would be harder to upkeep and upgrade than getting a new one would be.

Same for humans. Many humans got what they came here for and are ready to trade in their used bodies and outdated belief systems for new ones. They will come back with fresh bodies and beliefs soon enough … and much less than 200 years or more if they desire. 80 million increase in population every year. We are rocking this!

Mark de LA says
I think we need a test nailing on that one null proceeded by a volcano jump into the warm spot in the middle of an active one.
#SoTheFuckWhat .. dripping with #juice .

Seth says

Si says
Well, either work this from the point of view of the individual … and in that case I can show any particular individual a way that person can heal themselves “right now” if they are truly interested in staying around and willing to change what needs to change.

Or work it from the point of view of statistics and what is actually happening globally. The truth is there are more healthy people walking the planet today than any other time in human history … and the population is increasing by 80 million every year.

If you try and mix those points of view, or if you only focus on those who have problems, then all you get is a chopped fruit and nut salad. Stay with a point of view that represents where change is happening and evolution taking place.

Mark de LA says
XOR something else not #jibberish #juice .

Seth says
well then maybe it is a good thing that traditional health care is becoming too expensive for the common American. 
and that Congress is apparently on a path to make it even more expensive.  
Certainly that thrend will encourage people to heal themselves null

Si says
Apparently, as usual, #jibberish and #juice means I am saying something that you can sink your teeth into and work as a mental puzzle the way you like to puzzle out your reality. Because what I said is basic and factual.  

Si says

Si says
Since the truth is there are more healthy people walking the planet today than ever before and the population is increasing, not decreasing, even with all these people the system is seemingly failing dying … I would say that is a good bet.  Mother nature rocks, humans don’t always see it though.

Seth says
#anecdotally …
i haven’t taken a treatment from a doctor for years … 
and the last time they got me hooked on Priolect OTC … of which i am still trying to rid myself. 
The Priolect just perputing acid reflux and making it worse,
unless i take my daily pill.

My heart situation seems to have stabalized itself without diagnosis or  treatment …
and is not getting worse, unless i become too lazy and eat too much.

I did consult a doctor recently re my ever enlarging prostrate. 
Unfortunately he would not provide the catather which i requested
and would only resort to pharmacudicals, which path i am reluctant to persue.
so no treatment offered or accepted … notwistanding that i still had to pay $booKoo bucks.te

I give #thanks → #nature  for my good health null
certainlly not the American Health Care industry (← #AHCI ?)
i am sure others have quite different stories to tell.

more exact facts available if i get a null.

Si says

Mark de LA says
XOR it is just #jibberish – your Ego continuing to masturbate.

Mark de LA says
GW stayed away from doctors most of his life, but he was in relatively bad shape when he left at 90 years old – I say he used his body all up.  Healing is not the same thing as putting up with a malady . null

Seth says
i think in general if #GW had stayed more active, he would have lived longer and in better health.
His isolation and introversion did not help his health,  biologically or phychologically, at all, imho.

Barbra’s and Betty’s situation were quite different matters ...
almost a different topics …
which raise the spectrum that Health Care is not well generalized to all people ...
but needs to be dealt with in more specific classes.

Si says

?? Not having used his body up by, hell 90?, would have accomplished what?

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!

Hunter S. Thompson

… I’d say #GW did that part right!

Seth says
i will go out on a limb here and bet that in general as people age, they learn to live with maladies. 
how they adapt to those maladies is perhaps part of the stories they tell by living.

or said differently ...

it is almost as if the malady #informs their life.

… which seems not to be the regular way of thinking about this.

Mark de LA says
Tina’s father was not isolated nor was he inactive although he read a lot in the later years. He lived to be 90 & we celebrated his “wake” (he was irish) a few days before he departed of a heart thingy.

Si says
I agree with health care getting as specific and close to each individual as possible. No one knows how to treat a person better than the person’s own body. Good health care utilizes that fact, even when the person does not know how. Mom’s Dr. Springob for instance … who utilizes Kinesiology extensively in diagnosing. His diagnosis and treatment of my blood parasites from eating sushi was spot on, by using my own body to figure it out, after I had seen two other regular Dr. to no avail in 2008.

Mark de LA says
A common treatment for acid reflux is vinegar or in my case, when I have it, master tonic. A quick shot of master tonic cures almost any acid stomach by creating the acid needed to digest imbalanced  food. I just made a new batch which should be ready next Tuesday.
see – Master Tonic (comment 32801)

Seth says
so Tina’s father lived in relative good health untill he died of heart failure ?

Seth says

Seth says

Mark de LA says
He was aware of heart problems which slowed down his morning walks.

Seth says
i think there is a difference between chronic and acute acid reflux. 
my theory is that the acid pump pills have turned the acute situations into a on going chronic one.

eating no sugar and starch will also do the trick …
the two sweet peppermint lattes killed me last night,
as i have not taken the pump pills for days since we went back on the beverly hills diet.

Si says
Yep. A spoon a day of organic raw apple cider vinegar will rebalance just about anything in your digestive system.  Natalie even cured an ulcer with it.

Mark de LA says
It is not insurance you are looking for it is socialized medicine (xor socialism). Insurance is pooling resources & paying for a statistical probability that something you don’t want to happen might happen.  IOW, If it is a pre-existing condition then you know it is already happening.  Such would be like buying fire insurance while your house is burning down.  
Own it dudes!

← I am mortal therefore I have a pre-existing condition. null (also *)

Si says
I have no idea if I am mortal or not. Just because I know of people having expired does not mean I should assume I will. That would be illogical. Assumption by observed social association.

If some people don’t expire, would I be aware of that? Would not they hide that fact?

Mark de LA says
XOR you don’t want to know because you cherish wishful thinking.  Try the volcano test – described elsewhere, if you really want to know.  Xcarnation may actually be a bliss. null

Seth says

Insurance is pooling resources & paying for a statistical probability that something you don’t want to happen might happen. 

IOW, If it is a pre-existing condition then you know it is already happening.

What is being insured is that people will be able to afford whatever expense happens …
notwistanding whether the expenses existed prior to sign up or not.  

Obviously that cannot be insured except by insuring a large enought pool.  

This is not some contradiction in the concept of what insurance is ….
rather it is a method to actually insure that the expense will be covered.

And, strangely enough if you drill down into this new proposed legislation which just passed the house …
it is in fact a variation on my solution here in that it removes the high risk preexisting conditions from the normal coverage and covers them in a larger pool subsidized by government.   It just does it in the strange indirect way which was possible to get passed in the house.  

The only wierd part of this analysis is determining the process of who (and how)  the slider switches get set.   The Feds are notoriously bad at determining that kind of thing (as you also continually observe).  The market is better at making those choices.   This way of analizing affordable insurance (and pooling the risk in different pools) does not determin where   those kinds of settings  should be set … it would just points out  what the setting are. 

Seth says
well i don’t know nathan,  maybe one should not assume they are going to die …
but it is hard not to notice the pattern that people die …
and without any example of a person not dieing …
and with the assumption that you are also a person …
isn’t  it is hard for you not  to expect to die?

Mark de LA says
You shifted the meaning of the word insurance to suit your own fancy & ignore the business of insurance. You have just made it mean, what socialism always means by it as Other People’s Moneynull

Mark de LA says
Another meaning to insure:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence,[note 1] promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Anyone find any domestic tranquility lately? laughing

Si says
No. It is not hard. I have personally observed stranger things than that in my life. It would have been hard for me 30 years ago. But today, having seen what I have seen, and knowing what I know about beliefs and reality, I don’t take anything for granted. I have had several very hard cold thoughts this very month, that with a little ho’opnopono and some PFT shifted to easy thoughts … and then experienced miricles. I no longer think about what others expect, I ask myself what I want and then shift accompanying beliefs to support it.

Not that I am set on “not expring”. I simply have no bias about it. I do expect I will probably at least live 300+ years and I have said that several times before, even to you. If I choose to expire, I currently believe it will be because I want to start over, upgrade my hardware and software. Right now, I have learned to upgrade in place by continuously upgrading my beliefs in place as I live … and I am happy how that is going right now.  

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