Ming & Beyond

While the ming dictionary served GW’s purpose it has some analogical extensions since the jpegs of the characters can be any kind of picture & a whole language could be invented for memes, cartoons descriptions of thinking processes. Expansion of this idea later on when a null surfaces.



  1. ming
  2. ming wen
  3. wallaby
  4. hashtag
  5. ps


Mark de LA says

Si says
The ming appears, by looking at the dictionary, to be 994 characters long. Is that correct? Is that fixed or extendable? Is it based on math? Is it a subset of some other language?

Mark de LA says
Approximately, some may be left out … for example the word for Daath is in the language but is written in hebrew.  There are some with the same spelling but different character like the wong .  The original separate translator will show both.  Most of them can be found as a subset of Mandarin in J. Gile’s 1890 dictionary. The object was not to teach Chinese.  The strokes in characters are built opposite to Chinese. Shu Khwan (GW) explains it all. Above I was talking about using small pictures such as the ones used for apps on an iPhone. It is just a wallaby.

Mark de LA says
See https://www.fastblogit.com/thought/3400 for some more.

Si says
Okay. Just seemed a small number since Google says …

Altogether there are over 50,000 characters, though a comprehensive modern dictionary will rarely list over 20,000 in use. An educated Chinese person will know about 8,000 characters, but you will only need about 2-3,000 to be able to read a newspaper

…. So I thought your “ming” was maybe a subset based on some mathematical combination like barbara cubed or something.

Mark de LA says
to resolve words which have the same spelling the dictionary appends a number sometimes a 0 sometimes a 1 etc.  wongwong1

Si says
Okay. I see that if you put ming 3 times you get six defintions. Is the current behavior correct behavior? The resolution code is Seth’s. I just copied it for the pop-out. If different behavior is desired, please be specific. Thanks!

Mark de LA says
I can live with the way Seth coded it in the independent ap.thumbs up

Si says
Well, it is not that the dictionary is appending a number. It is the author who is appending the number, and according to seth’s code, simply causes a lookup failure on that instance so no definition is printed. When the real word is found, it always prints all matched lines.

Hence this method does allow you to “choose” if you want a reprint of all lines for each multiple use of the word by allowing you to cause a lookup failure by appending a number in your input text … or anything really, does not have to be a number, could be wong-dong and it would still work exactly the same as it does for wong1 … it’s just not being found for that one, that’s all.

So this method is flexible, if you know about the additional syntax to cause failure, but it also has the one downside of the definition table not exactly matching the sequence of the input words for multiple uses of a same word. Like in wongahwong1boo there is a mismatch between the input word sequence and the dictionary table sequence even though all cases are printed. Just noticing, that’s all … it’s your app.

Si says
Well, that’s interesting. I wrote the above and it did not come out as I expected because when I added the icons to the able I didn’t know about the appending 1 syntax.

I believe I can make that better.

Mark de LA says
As above there are 2 characters for the word wong they have different meanings. If the independent translator shows all the word definitions but not the characters I just put a number after the word & it will show that character as well.  While it could be improved I prefer the way it was before it left inmotion since I am the main person using it.

Mark de LA says

Mark de LA says
I like both the independent translator AND the inline one since occasionally I practice putting together ming sentences. I don’t want to have to edit a comment to do that.

Si says
It IS the way it was. That is not the point. What is not that way is the new small icons to the left in the definition table that I added because I didn’t know about the appending number syntax. I am upload a fix for that.

Then, even the new icon addtion will BE THIS WAY as it was.

However, as you say, it has some problems. Another is that, when you write wong, do you really mean both wongs? It writes them both. Wouldn’t it be good to specify which one you actually wanted?

Si says
Yep. I never suggested abandoning icybermind domain. Only that there is more work involved in getting it up yet. I have to schedule in that work. Much more than these little value added additions I made here.

Mark de LA says

Si says
Okay. Now the definition table icons match with the definition text same as the main line of characters do.

--- addendum → respond to the above … the below is simply dialog, not content. The above is the content.

As I said though, this is a rather “hackey” way to do it as it takes advantage of a hole in the routines that don’t display a definition for ting1 etc … and thus the definition table becomes out of word sequence with the original line of text. (see below ming)


It also prints “both” every time in the definition list. (see above ming)
Also requires the author to know if they want ting or ting1 and memorize which is which.

A full blown modern solution would pop up a hint definition list when you wrote the word ting asking you to choose which version you wanted there … same way our #hashtag hint lists work when writing a #hashtag in the editor, and instead of numeric appended labels, would prolly use the english word as the append. 

For example instead of ting and ting1 it would be ting-fixed and ting-cauldron (with hint list selection) and just the single word ting would be the most common default (listed first in the dictionary as it is now).

Seems to me there is prolly a better way utilizing straight forward procedures and code, instead of utilizing the old-school popularity of hacks and loopholes to get a desired effect. But like you say, you are probably the only one to ever use this stuff and the code of the 60’s and 70’s was prolific in hacks, loopholes, and master switches so you prolly feel quite at home. 

#ps not bashing, just noticing. All things must evolve and that means passing though various forms that can work until new abilities are invented and made commonly available. Without the hacky coding of the 60’s and 70’s, and even 80’s and 90’s, today’s elegant coding options and abilities would not have come into existence!  

Mark de LA says
ting1boowhang ← this is what happens when I know which one.  Ting as in H#18 is not the first in the dictionary.

Si says
Yes, that nicely illustrates the hole in Seth’s code.

When you only write ting1, it never displays a definition for it. This is the icybermind code as it was, as it is. That’s how Seth wrote it and I copied it.

Mark de LA says
What we are talking about is homonyms . (***) ← a dictionary term.

Si says
Okay. homonyms are how a linguist would think of it, yes.

What I am thinking of is that in ting1boowang there is no definition for ting1 ever shown … here or at the old icybermind. That’s what a programmer talks about.

Mark de LA says
can you fix it so that if there is a number at end of the spelling of the ming word that you display the definition corresponding to the order.  Some use zero as a discriminator.  Until I get all definitions I don’t know which one to ask for.

Si says
Yes, I could. But your area of noticed lack is exactly why I suggested two things above.

1) Editor hint lists giving options “as you type” so you can choose.
2) Appending the english word instead of a number … that at least would make it easier to remember which is which while typing and also more direct and stable for the dictionary lookup as well as it doesn’t rely on a positionally ordered database … and thus won’t break if the ordering of the database changes in the future. i.e. ting-fixed and ting-cauldron instead of ting and ting1.

#2 is as easy to code as is your suggestion for detecting the numeric appends.

How many nickles is it worth to you? Full reviving of icybermind as it was is paid for by trade for the thinking.live domain name … and the value added definition pop-in here at FBI is a free-bee because it was so easy and I just liked doing it. But rewriting Seth’s code for your use is something that it would be nice to get nickles for.

Mark de LA says
I can keep it the way it was with an independent app.  There are not very many homonyms in the ming dictionary, probably <10 .  Can save the nickels for something more potent.  Actually, I erred – these are heteronyms: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heteronym_(linguistics)

Si says

Mark de LA says

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