NOAA - Global Warming & Many Other Subjects

About: ncdc: global warming

There is probably more information than you want to know at the NOAA (National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration) website. I have cited the part that funnels into Global warming above. 


Tags

  1. global warming
  2. noaa
  3. globalwarming
  4. south pole
  5. polar genitals
  6. north pole

Comments


Seth says
Good cite ...
source: NOAA above

Top of Page Are greenhouse gases increasing?

Human activity has been increasing the concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere (mostly carbon dioxide from combustion of coal, oil, and gas; plus a few other trace gases). There is no scientific debate on this point. Pre-industrial levels of carbon dioxide (prior to the start of the Industrial Revolution) were about 280 parts per million by volume (ppmv), and current levels are about 370 ppmv. The concentration of CO2 in our atmosphere today, has not been exceeded in the last 420,000 years, and likely not in the last 20 million years. According to the IPCC Special Report on Emission Scenarios (SRES), by the end of the 21st century, we could expect to see carbon dioxide concentrations of anywhere from 490 to 1260 ppm (75-350% above the pre-industrial concentration).

Top of Page Is the climate warming?

Yes. Global surface temperatures have increased about 0.6


Seth says
M 2006-06-11 10:26:59 3690
This is where the left goes crazy Carbon Taxes !

I think that taxing behaviros that are known to cause problems like alcohol consumptions and smoking is good economic policy.  If it is known that industrial processess which produce CO2 are leading to a catastrophy, then placing a tax on those processes gives the economy a lever and motivation to deploy processess which work to ameliorate the catastrophe.  I don't call that "left" ... i call it "smart".

Mark de LA says
M 2006-06-11 10:26:59 3690
This is where the left goes crazy Carbon Taxes !

Remember without a panic there is nothing to control & therefore nothing to tax. A government that exists to tax & spend will always need a succession of panics (including wars.) Think about it. Wake up and alter your own consciousnesses & behavior.

Mark de LA says
This is where the left goes crazy Carbon Taxes !


Mark de LA says
M 2006-06-11 09:41:40 3690
Also note:
source: ... Projections of future climate change therefore depend on how well the computer climate model simulates the climate and on our understanding of how forcing functions will change in the future.
... They are assuming that the so-called "green house gas model" is representative of what is going on and predicting from that.  According to some predictions a while ago they showed from one such model that trees absorb more sun radiation (they are dark in color and suck it up)  & therefore caused global warming.  On the other hand trees consume CO2 - what a conundrum!
One has to read all of the data not just the parts you like to prove your point. Overall cycles are documented for the Sun.
Note they are using a theoretical mathematical model  to predict their results. One wonders what their accuracy rate prediction vs actuality is. IMHO tree rings & ice cores are not as precise as thermometers therefore the past is much more fuzzy than current readings are.

Seth says
Wikipedia has some level headed articles on Global Warming.  Here is one on the Global Warming Controversy itself. 


Mark de LA says
seth 2006-06-11 10:46:28 3690
 I don't call that "left" ... i call it "smart".
Of course you would!  The left also calls it progressive. But, that's why you folks are liberals (the left). Taxing rarely changes any behavior. It just gives politicians more money to throw around and solidify their incumbency.  How much did the taxing of cigarettes cause people to quit smoking ? Probably NONE! How much has the high cost of gasoline cause a change in driving habits ? Probably NONE! One argument against higher taxes is that it just hurts the poor who can't absorb the increases. A liberal who believes in government as the sole solver of problems has 3 solutions:
        • TAX
        • SPEND
        • MAKE ANOTHER LAW
I say more power to the individual - more power to the people! Think globally & act locally & we all will end up better-off!

BTW,
my selective spending initiative would have far more influence on individual & corporate pollution habits than any tax ever will.  We need to organize the information about merchants & manufacturers so that it is instantly available at the point-of-sale (maybe in an iPOD.) A few well thought out alternatives to the things which we can't get along well without like food, water, transportation & electricity will also need to emerge.


Mark de LA says
Note that Whole Foods has switched to wind power in a credit buying system. Are there other ways to make these changes outside of government tax & spend policies ?


Seth says
... I think you missed the thrust of my message which i have now bolded:
placing a tax on those processes gives the economy a lever and motivation to deploy processess which work to ameliorate the catastrophe.
Note, the tax is not designed to stop factories from emiting CO2.  Thinking that would be foolish.  The tax is designed to make it more economically feasable to invent and deploy processess that do not emit as much CO2.  Taxation produces economic niches.  If you tax cigaretts in one state and not in it's neighbor, you will suddenly have people driving between the states with their trunks full of cigaretts.  If someone invents a smokestack that removes 99% of the CO2, then it becomes a no-brainer for a factory to deploy that smokestack since they will reduce their tax liability, pay for the smokestack, and increase the dividends to their shareholders.  Everybody wins, including the planet Earth.

And how can i get you to descalate the conservitive/liberal rhetoric?  It is really just getting in the way.  Perhaps i should require you to open a paypal accound and send a $1 to fastblogit fror every mention.   Or better yet, i will just cease to respond to any of your comments that contain these useless cliches.



Seth says
M 2006-06-11 11:23:10 3690
Note that Whole Foods has switched to wind power in a credit buying system. Are there other ways to make these changes outside of government tax & spend policies ?
Certainly there are ways that don't envolve taxation.  Creating an google environmental currency is another way.  I can't find immediately a definitive reference but here is an example of it at work ...
source: Making Money in Environmental Derivatives
This has led to the creation of an environmental currency: the wetland mitigation credit. And the credit, in turn, has created a variety of businesses specializing in enhancing or restoring wetlands in order to sell the credits to needy developers....
...


Mark de LA says
seth 2006-06-11 11:24:50 3690
And how can i get you to descalate the conservitive/liberal rhetoric?  It is really just getting in the way.  Perhaps i should require you to open a paypal accound and send a $1 to fastblogit fror every mention.   Or better yet, i will just cease to respond to any of your comments that contain these useless cliches.
Hmmm... Seth DOES seem to be playing with this item in the group mark . I do appreciate that the owns the domain, but then he would be talking to himself, mostly.

Mark de LA says
Capitalism works about every time government keeps it's grimy mits out of the pot.  If someone comes up with a good substitute for oil that is environmentally sound and costs about the same or maybe 15% more then those who are socially conscious and practice selective spending will buy it! There is no need for a tax or barter system. 


Mark de LA says
This item is inexorably attached to economics & politics - why fight it ? So is war. The US Civil War was more about economics than the idea of freeing slaves. The North was trying to strangle the South by an economic blockade to force the North's politics upon the South. It is better to solve a problem than to postpone the solution to future generations by playing games with credits & taxes while still using the same old ways of transportation, energy etc.


Seth says
M 2006-06-11 14:19:15 3690
 It is better to solve a problem than to postpone the solution to future generations by playing games with credits & taxes while still using the same old ways of transportation, energy etc.

Well i'm for whatever works.  If i can assume, based upon your recent comments, that at least you have opened your mind to the idea that we may have a problem with global warming, then i am happy. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2006-06-11 14:33:18 3690
M 2006-06-11 14:19:15 3690
 It is better to solve a problem than to postpone the solution to future generations by playing games with credits & taxes while still using the same old ways of transportation, energy etc.
Well i'm for whatever works.  If i can assume, based upon your recent comments, that at least you have opened your mind to the idea that we may have a problem with global warming, then i am happy. 
Be happy always! I like the new-speak word "challenge" instead of problem - nobody likes problems. The challenge I am speaking about is more the oil economy than global warming. Our addiction to oil leads to having to deal with countries run by assholes. I like the Earth & the term Gaia - I want to keep Gaia happy! It is an inner directive for me, very personal. I will share it with anyone who wants to listen. I will not run around and scream "the sky is falling".

Mark de LA says
seth 2006-06-11 11:24:50 3690
... I think you missed the thrust of my message which i have now bolded:
placing a tax on those processes gives the economy a lever and motivation to deploy processess which work to ameliorate the catastrophe.
Yet another wet-dream of your left-wing nanny state seems to be happening see: Doctors call for 'fat tax' on Coca-Cola and Pepsi  here .

Mark de LA says
"The Inconvenient Truth" is indeed inconvenient to alarmists - see this Canadian Free Press Article .


Seth says
M 2006-06-14 09:29:52 3690
"The Inconvenient Truth" is indeed inconvenient to alarmists - see this Canadian Free Press Article .

Well, apart from some unsuported rhetoric, this article does contain some leads that need to be investigated ... like this one
Appearing before the Commons Committee on Environment and Sustainable Development last year, Carleton University paleoclimatologist Professor Tim Patterson testified, "There is no meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature over this [geologic] time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years." Patterson asked the committee, "On the basis of this evidence, how could anyone still believe that the recent relatively small increase in CO2 levels would be the major cause of the past century's modest warming?"


Mark de LA says
your link to this didn't work via a title.


Mark de LA says
There is a lot more in that article to do research on.  A lot of it is not going to be in published research. Like for instance the degrees and areas of expertise of all the PhD's who speak out in hysterics about global warming. To be balanced one would have to do research on the research & perhaps interview Professor Bob Carter of the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University, in Australia for some more  studies that he used to substantiate his point of view.  I presume he goes to conferences and seminars somehow related to this topic.  


Seth says
M 2006-06-14 09:54:10 3690
your link to this didn't work via a title.

yeah, apparently titles with colons in them are a bad idea ... but you found it, thanks.   The passage i quoted above is a good example of the kinds of propositions we need to find ... then delve into the science sufficiently to determine where the truth may lie.  If necessary find the exact opposing views.  The science that was reported by the IPCC was supposed to be peer reviewed ... so things like this should have been sorted out in that process.  Now there are known cases where politicians got in the way and edited the science ... we can (and should) point to cases on both sides where that happened.  But peer review is peer review and something this glaring would (i must assume) be caught in the process.  If we only read the surface press reviews, we will never know. 

Mark de LA says
Peer review may sometimes be like the editorial-we joke - "gotta mouse in your back pocket ?" 


Seth says
This graph seems to refute Professor Tim Patterson's claim that ...
"There is no meaningful correlation between CO2 levels and Earth's temperature over this [geologic] time frame. In fact, when CO2 levels were over ten times higher than they are now, about 450 million years ago, the planet was in the depths of the absolute coldest period in the last half billion years." Patterson asked the committee, "
I know this graph from the Wikipedia, but you can find the same graphs in the peer reviewed articles of the IPCC.   My interpertation of the graph is that CO2 levels rise very rapidly periodically and then slowly fall back down ... temperture follows (need to check that the rise).  And this graph very definitely spans a geologic time frame.   Don't forget that Tom Harris, the writer of the article, has cherry picked quotes and put them in his context. 

Seth says
Woops ... got my time scale wrong ...(sorry) ...  this must be be graph that Patterson must be talking about ...

Now need to see the temperture correlation during the same period. 

I mean did they even have plants back 450 million years ago? ... if you go back far enough, you are in a period where the earth was not even habital by mammals.

See what i mean about digging into the science behind the rhetoric.

Mark de LA says
M 2006-06-14 10:46:23 3690
Well, temperature readings before the invention of the thermometer are suspect ! 
Wikipedia has a link to this website which puts the thermometer invention around 1561 EV.


J. Althauser says
Land plants began to evolve around 460 million years ago. It took tens of millions of years (or more) for them to remove the carbon from the atmosphere and put it into deposites of things like lignite. Later, termites evolved to use the energy in wood. They put carbon back into the atmosphere as CH4 and interrupt the cycle that produced the soft coal.

Seth says
source: Greenland's Ice Sheet Is Slip-Sliding Away via Los Angeles Times

Greenland is losing 52 cubic miles of ice each year, more than anyone anticipated. The amount of freshwater ice dumped into the Atlantic Ocean has almost tripled in a decade. Climate experts have started to worry that the ice cap is disappearing in ways that computer models had not predicted.
(John McConnico / AP)

This ice melting might be something that you might want to take seriously.  I don't hear anybody who has any credibilty who is denying it. Then too there are those who say that there will be a feedback accelerating effect where the more ice melts the faster the ice will melt.  If you are interested, i think i can find a reference to that feedback effect.  Read the article, then tell me that you don't believe that the ice is melting.

Mark de LA says
Interesting picture - could be anywhere.


Mark de LA says
Yep - I posted the picture because I liked the picture. Somehow the picture of a massive iceberg in the ocean gives me the feelings of solititude & silence. My picture didn't prove anything. My original thoughts on your picture was going to be just "nice picture", but then I just had to add that "could be anywhere" ... I couldn't hold it back. In fact, your picture is somewhat unremarkable because it could even be drugs on an ebony tabletop.

Everything changes - nothing is static. If you try to hold back the changes they will EAT YOU !


Seth says
M 2006-06-26 12:19:11 3690
Interesting picture - could be anywhere.

Yep, just like the one you posted to illustrate your item.  It was one the Times selected to illustrate the story.   Here is another one of their selections, perhaps it contains more useful information ...



Seth says
Well i guess one trivilized over-gerneralization begs another ... if you are rolling 100 miles an hour twards a brick wall 100 feet ahead of you, you had best worry about a change in your forward velocity.  Point is .. did you read the article? ... do you believe the ice is melting?  If not, why not?  If so then why do you think it is unimportant in the light of all the scientist who say it is a problem?


Seth says
And here is something that i cant't resist...

It looks like hot duck. It smells like hot duck. Is it roast duck?



Mark de LA says
Well if you are going 100 miles an hour toward a brick wall & you are 100 feet from the wall, you're FUCKED!  - not even enough time for a prayer or the whole phrase "OH! SHIT".


Mark de LA says
M 2006-06-26 13:15:24 3690
Well if you are going 100 miles an hour toward a brick wall & you are 100 feet from the wall, you're FUCKED!  - not even enough time for a prayer or the whole phrase "OH! SHIT".
Sorry missed my shot - didn't intend to delete. Was just going to say that I'm not worried - but I guess you are

Mark de LA says
seth 2006-06-26 13:14:28 3690
And here is something that i cant't resist...
It looks like hot duck. It smells like hot duck. Is it roast duck?
Like I said before, why do the Global Warming Alarmists always shout the loudest during the Summer?  There was reasonable doubt last winter.  As for the Scientists who depend upon grants & government funds for their job security - the jury is out as to whether they have bias.  I still like the wealth of statistics & graphs & analysis about the subject on the uri http://junkscience.com/. He has no stake in the matter (he has plenty of other scientific studies to debunk) & he is good at analyzing stats & studies.  I would like to see a graph of budget dollars versus the temperature of the hype and a third dimension by season just to see what is there. Another could also be a media variable like # of global warming stories.

                   You prolly just have a duck in heat !

Seth says
Look there is hype on both sides of this issue.  And it is not even news that there is too much hype.   What should be news now is that it is high time to stop  the hype and examine the facts and reasons.  The ice is melting accept that and move on.  If you don't accept it then provide non-hype studies which refute it.  The only question, in my mind, is to put the melting ice cap in perspective.   You keep reiterating in cutsie hyped ways your lack of concern.  Well that's fine for you, but it does not inform me ... i got your message a long time ago ... you simply do not care. 


Mark de LA says
The part "I don't care" about is the hype.  Perhaps if YOU would read the uri http://junkscience.com stuff you would be a little less hyped & settle down & gain back your sense of humor about it all.  Like I have said before, I am a lot more worried about Iran & North Korea having nuclear weapons than I worry about the very slow melting of the ice caps. (Is that happening in the southern hemisphere too ??).  If one of those nuclear babies torches off there will be a lot more things melting & faster. The thing is that the nuclear bombs are something we can control as a world - the others maybe we can't. Strangling economies with so called "carbon allocations" is not close to an answer. Alternative energy is much closer. 


Mark de LA says
Actually, they predicted a Nuclear Winter after a atomic war so maybe that is the answer after all! 


Mark de LA says
Add to your list of uncertainties this article in Wikipedia about the South Pole which is rarely mentioned in the global warming hyperventilation.


Mark de LA says
Latest news -  Global warming boost to glaciers  &

Russian scientist predicts global cooling - here



Mark de LA says
M 2006-08-25 11:20:15 3690
Given the picture on the main item, here is something to worry about:
source: ... uri http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,210444,00.html
Study: Polar Bear Genitals Are Shrinking
The polar ice cap may not be the only thing shrinking in the Arctic.


Seth says
Christ is getting too hot !

Mark de LA says
seth 2006-09-16 10:01:02 3690
Christ is getting too hot !
More like Mother Nature. But just to play along, Anthroposophy has it that Christ was once a Being who inhabited the occult Sun.

Seth says
M 2006-09-16 10:06:54 3690
Anthroposophy has it that Christ was once a Being who inhabited the occult Sun.
Yep Anthroposophy spins all kinds of fantastic yarns which is one or the reasons that i parted company with it in my adolescence.

Mark de LA says
seth 2006-09-16 10:34:06 3690
M 2006-09-16 10:06:54 3690
Anthroposophy has it that Christ was once a Being who inhabited the occult Sun.
Yep Anthroposophy spins all kinds of fantastic yarns which is one or the reasons that i parted company with it in my adolescence.
One man's fantastic yarn is another's perception.  "In the valley of the blind the one-eyed man is king!"

Seth says
Book you passage today for next year.


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