Comparison: Left-Wing, Right-Wing By Issue


A thinking out loud node ...

I wish to gather a table of issues showing which side each falls.  The objective of my inquiry is to determine just how arbritrarily they cluster.  Could they be rearranged and still maintain their coherance?

issue Left
Right
(1) Government should not pass laws restraining personal freedome.
yes
no
(2) environmental regulations
pro
con
(3) gun controls
con
pro
(4) strong border enforcement
con
pro
(5) Should taxation be progressive? yes
no
(6) take globla warming seriously
pro
con
(7) The government should be prohibited from encouraging faith based attitudes.
yes
no
(8) people are responsible for their own actions
no
yes
(9) Homosexuality is a way of life that should be discouraged by society.
no
yes
(10) Government should not pass laws against abortion.
yes
no

This is my first very rough draft.  It needs a lot of work and elaboration. Eventually the Issue should be stated as a proposition.  Any help or finds of other sites where this list has been elaborated would be much apperciated.

We must not take sides in creating the list, this is not a leftrightism node. One major problem with creating this list objectively is that you tend to write issue propositions which both the left and the right will assent.  For example who is there right mind is going to run on a platform which says "People are not responsible for their own actions" ... yet liberals more frequently come down on that side of an issue.  This list is not going to be easy to make.  If you take phrasing propostons serioulsy it is going to be very difficult.   We also need to phrase the issues such that they are simple enough that your average politically aware joe will comprehend them.  The proposition cannot be long and legalistic.  It must be short, sweet, and to the point.  A survey of a people who assert that they are liberal or conservitive should corrolate highly with the list.  This has probably been done, i just can't find it at the moment ... but am still looking.


Specifically what does it mean to be on the left or the right?  How far can you deviate from the cluster of beliefs and still maintain a logically coherant political platform?  Could we legoize  the issues ... ie make a set of lego issues which fit together ... people could then vote for a composite lego character rather than left or light wing. 

Please note that the political objective here is not to increase the polarization.  Rather the opposite.  The political objective here is to make the next level of detail under simply a left/right binary choice more visable.  But not to carry that level of detail all the way down to specific issues.   What we want to say is:  Dont's choose to be a liberal or a conservitive !  Rather choose amoung about 10 other political propositions.  Let us become more particular. 

Tags

  1. politics
  2. platforms
  3. thinking out loud
  4. polinternetics
  5. black-whiteism
  6. libertarians
  7. poll
  8. liberal viewpoint

Comments


Seth says
see also url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism

Seth says
see also url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

Seth says
Left-wing politics and Right-wing politics from Wikipedia need careful reading to help build this list.  

Seth says
a survey url http://typology.people-press.org/typology/

Seth says
another poll.  I expect that there are many many scientific studies that corolate issues.  We need to find the scientific articles on this.


Seth says
useful propositions url http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=949

Seth says
... err perhaps a better url for the above is url http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?PageID=943

Seth says
Well the urls at that site seem to be rather unstable ... try this list to get to the meet of the matter
...



Seth says
detailed studies pdf url http://people-press.org/reports/tables/242.pdf

Seth says
This list may be a good start for the basis of a 10 part issue list ...
source: The Political Topology

Foreign Policy Assertiveness. Opinions on the efficacy of military strength vs. diplomacy, use of force to defeat terrorism, and Americans' duty to serve in the military.

Religion and Morality. Attitudes concerning the importance of religion in people's lives, the government's role in protecting morality, and social issues such as homosexuality.

Environmentalism and Regulation. Beliefs about the costs and benefits of government regulation of business to protect the environment or the public interest.

Social Welfare. Beliefs about the role of government in providing for the poor and needy.

Immigration. Views concerning the impact of immigrants on American culture and the U.S. economy.

Business Sentiment. Attitudes about the influence of business in American society.

Financial Security. Level of satisfaction with current economic status and feelings of financial security.

Anti-Government Sentiment. Beliefs about the responsiveness of elected officials, and views about government performance.

Individualism. Beliefs about whether all individuals have it within their power to succeed, or whether success is beyond a person's control
...



Seth says
M 2006-07-07 17:21:06 3874
One would think that you have changed your world into black & white whereas a while back you abhorred such notions.

I still do ... i guess you didn't read to the end of the item ...

source: item above

Please note that the political objective here is not to increase the polarization.  Rather the opposite.  The political objective here is to make the next level of detail under simply a left/right binary choice more visable.  But not to carry that level of detail all the way down to specific issues.   What we want to say is:  Dont's choose to be a liberal or a conservitive !  Rather choose amoung about 10 other political propositions.  Let us become more particular.


Don't you think that by breaking one proposition down into 10 propositions we have improved the resolution of our eyesight from black\white to different shades.  With leftrightism you get this kind of logic:
  • I am right-wing:
  • therefore i believe: Homosexuality is a way of life that should be discouraged.
  • Cheney's daughter who ran Cheney's campaign is homosexual
  • therefore:  Cheney should be discouraged.
I know it doesn't make sense, but that is how lots of people think.  You'r a right-winger, how did you think when Kerry outed Cheney's daughter ?  Why do you think he did it?



Mark de LA says
You start out your item with polarization which is inaccurate & sometimes dead wrong & expect someone to read on. I have conservative values, but they come from inside - not Rush Limbaugh, not Ann Coulter or George Bush. You failed to notice & ran the stereotypical left-right in your opening table & pretend NOT to polarize ?


Mark de LA says
source: ... how did you think when Kerry outed Cheney's daughter ?  Why do you think he did it?
...Kerry outed Cheney's daughter (actually she wasn't hiding it) in order to get some points from the so-called Christian right against Cheney. I actually heard her on the radio a month ago & she speaks very well for herself. It didn't bother her. She was working inside work for the Bush campaign because she believed in what they were doing. She held onto her tongue because she did not want to become the focus of attention and take it away from Bush-Cheney.  She has since written a book with a chapter about it .


Seth says
M 2006-07-07 21:26:57 3874
You start out your item with polarization which is inaccurate & sometimes dead wrong & expect someone to read on. I have conservative values, but they come from inside - not Rush Limbaugh, not Ann Coulter or George Bush. You failed to notice & ran the stereotypical left-right in your opening table & pretend NOT to polarize ?

Like i said this is a working document ... the idea was to get these propositions so that each side would understand them and assent (or dissent) accordingly.  If you wern't so pugnatious, you could actually have helped.  Why not try to understand what a person is doing before comming out swinging against them ? 

Seth says
M 2006-07-07 21:26:57 3874
You start out your item with polarization which is inaccurate & sometimes dead wrong & expect someone to read on. I have conservative values, but they come from inside - not Rush Limbaugh, not Ann Coulter or George Bush. You failed to notice & ran the stereotypical left-right in your opening table & pretend NOT to polarize ?
Btw, nobody is saying that these are your values.   The test of the  accuracty of this list (and i know it is no where accurate now) would be if there is a high correlation between those who state they are left-ling and accent to the prpositions according to the left column.   The study has no particular spin itself.   If you want to help, add some propositions and reword some that are there.  When we both agree on the propositions, then we take a poll.  If the correlations don't come out strong, then we dink with the wording until they do.  Like i said, this is not a lefrightims node.  I have no idea why you mistook it for one. 

Mark de LA says
Seems to me it would have been better to take a poll first. Here is one that is interesting.  And the World's Smallest Political Quiz which they mention. On the latter one I score (below): (which is not surprising). As I recall, I would not have always scored that way. Politics varies according to which passage of life you are travelling. Also there are 2 main divisions - economic & social. One could be an economic conservative & a social liberal. Even Communist China is more into capitalism today than it used to be.




Seth says
... Yep breaking things down by another axis like personal and economic might be a good idea.  Again we need to come up with the propositions.  I'll study the survey you mention when i can give it more attention .. right now my honey-do list for the weekend needs of attention. Did you see all the surveys i pointed to in my comments above?


Seth says
Here is how i score on Smallest Political Quiz ...
They score the result as follows:

The political description that fits you best is LIBERTARIAN. 

Your PERSONAL issues Score is 70%.

Your ECONOMIC issues Score is 70%.

I think the poll may be slightly biased in favor of teasing out more libertarians.  But i don't know ... i  need to study more of these kind of polls. 




Seth says
seth 2006-07-07 11:15:14 3874
another poll.  I expect that there are many many scientific studies that corolate issues.  We need to find the scientific articles on this.

Here is how i scored on this one ... Based on how the results were projected, me thinks this is a right wing biased pool.   I did not like how most of the questions were phrased.





Seth says
seth 2006-07-07 11:08:01 3874

I particularly like the style of this survey.  It has two questions for each query, so that the questions that you are answering are phrased from a postion which you can accept.  This is how i scored: "Based on your answers to the questionnaire, you most closely resemble survey respondents within the Liberal typology group."

Seth says
My Libertarian Purity Score is 27 out of 160 which means according to them: "You are a soft-core libertarian. With effort, you may harden and become pure."  Apparently to scroe high on this "test" you need to answer "yes" to questions like  "Should the state be abolished? ".  Now those who know me know that in many cases i favor anarchy over government.   But just abolishing the state at this level of our develoment is not practical.  You simply do not get there from here in one easy step.  This kind of question should not be in a  unbiasd poll.  Any  non Waco-Wako, imho, would answer that question "no".

Mark de LA says
  1. is too broad - requires qualification. (please use the spell checker in FF - it works!) The "you can't shout FIRE in a crowded auditorium" argument applies. There are many restrictions on complete freedom - I say the minimize restrictions.
  2. environmental regulation - too broad; some is needed to dispose of toxic waste & not bulldoze everything to build strip malls & condominiums on the edge of the Grand Canyon.
  3. again too broad - some is necessary like registration & purchase so that CSI can do it's job & solve crimes.  I also don't see any private need to use machine guns (to hunt with ?) - if you want to practice using one join the national guard.
  4. again broad strokes - this is part of national soverignty & immigration - there are goodies in this part of the debate for both sides.
  5. is good
  6. I wonder if you took Algore out of the mix & the global warming takeover of people's behavior whether this would even be on the list. It's the new form of communism since the Soviet Union died; (but I could go on & on here!). This one is a possible campaign issue. (seriously ?  - how would  I take it seriously - remove the smirk off my face & start frowning & running around in circles crying (al la Chicken Little) the Earth is Warming, the Earth is Warming !
  7. See article one of the Bill of Rights - what is more interesting is whether article one considers atheism & agnosticism as religions. Those who are against any religious mention of God in anything associated with government ignore the founding fathers way of life & behavior.
  8. is good
  9. jury is still out on this one - homosexuality flies in the face of Darwin as an inherited trait - (I know there are those that will argue the point anyway - don't bother me with them - they are silly) . The thing I object to most is that homosexuals think they are entitled to being a protected class.
  10. You know my stance on this one - I have already written about it in 1535 & 3528. Congruent with those positions it should not even be a left-right discriminator

These are my thoughts on your list . I think that you made the questions broad in order to remove the bias in a genuine attempt to make a left-right discriminator. In doing that you would have to take a very large sample & poll to test your theory. I will post my top 10 later in a different item. (This is growing too long). I think your list mixes issues with values with whatever & all the items are not of the same stength & quality.
Note where my opinion is expressed it is expressed from Conservative values moving toward Libertarian; not Republican or Democrat.


Mark de LA says
BTW, just for amusement - what do you think/believe?

I believe that there is no other purpose for a gun than to kill someone or something. Target practice is practice to kill someone or something (like an animal).  This perspective strips the mystique from most of the argumentation.

The Bill of Rights says you can own one - perhaps worrying about government being too powerful (too bad it failed). The Bill of Rights doesn't say that you can own a car (except that it does say that anything not prohibited is up to the states to deal with). Yet, cars produce more deaths than guns in the hands of private individuals in this country on an annual basis. Here is the NRA statistics page. Here is the Wikipedia page on auto deaths. Here is the Wikipedia page on gun control politics. PS - there are other purposes for cars.


Seth says
M 2006-07-11 07:08:49 3874
These are my thoughts on your list . I think that you made the questions broad in order to remove the bias in a genuine attempt to make a left-right discriminator. In doing that you would have to take a very large sample & poll to test your theory. I will post my top 10 later in a different item. (This is growing too long). I think your list mixes issues with values with whatever & all the items are not of the same stength & quality.
Note where my opinion is expressed it is expressed from Conservative values moving toward Libertarian; not Republican or Democrat.

Thanks for taking this experiment seriously .  I look forward to your top 10.

Because we are limited to a small number (perhaps 10) the catagories must needs be broad.  The more i think about it the more i think that each catagory should have 2 questions and a person would assent or dissent to only one of the questions.  It should be obvious that the questions are comming from contradictory positions as in the topology site.  Otherwise we end up arguing each prosition endlessly trying to remove the biased assumptions.  So far i think we are still at the level of just deciding which beliefs are important enough to make the cut.  For example perhaps global warming should be covered under one catagory with environmental concerns. Nobody will end up being "against the environment" what discriminates the polarity is what you are prepared to sacrafice.  Then is gun control all that important.  What about the national debt ... shouldnt that be in there?  What about social security?  What about welfair?  How about free trade?  Maybe we should expand the list and try to be all conclusive .. then go through a process of combining where we can and eliminating special interests that are not that important. 

Mark de LA says
BTW, item 1 has a not in which reverses the polarity. If you remove the not probably nobody would say yes or they would argue it is too general. I would state the discriminators all in a positive way.  I think that you need something besides your black & white yes/no agree/disagree. You need middle ground. Most polls have strongly agree, agree, middle, strongly disagree, disagree & sometimes I don't know. You could also throw in "I don't give a fuck" 


Seth says
M 2006-07-11 08:17:06 3874
BTW, item 1 has a not in which reverses the polarity. 
Yep (1) has serious problems.  I think we need to delve into the source of political thinking where that idea came from.  This is your basic right of the individual vs right of the state.  What is so very strange in current affairs, especially on fastblogit, is that the current administration is severly infringing on the right of the individual even though we call Bush being a conservitive.  Do conservitives not see the right of the individual trumping the interests of the state?   How is it that the fear of terrorism has  changed that?  Please don't take this as an excuse to lob cutsie slogans ... i've just very curious how the right has reconsiled what to me sounds like a contradiction.  Perhaps i don't understand the political philosophy of the right ... perhaps you could point out where i have misstated the situation.   Is it a tennant of the right that a military threat means that we must sacrafice our individual freedoms?  Certainly i don't resent that i must be searched when i go on an airplane.  But i don't take that an an infringement on my freedome.  I do resent that our government tramples on the rights of individuals at Guantanamo.  I don't buy into the "them vs us" attitudes.  People are people regardless of their citizenship.  That's what we call human rights.  That stands above the local interests of US citizens.  The US government thinks is can righteously just "disappear" people. That is not right.  That is not justice.  There is no level of fear that justifies that level of infringement on human rights.  Sorry this paragraph is a bit rambeling.  I hope you will not cherry pick from it but will look behind the words for the real concerns.  How are those concerns to be expressed in the 10 belief catagories?  Or perhaps current affairs have gone beyond political logic and philosohpy.  People say that 911 change us.   Sure it changes us, but are we to allow it to wipe out the bill of rights?  We need to get past our instincts to throw left/right lobs and deal with these difficult issues. 

Seth says
see 2820

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