On Seth's Ramblings

About: comparison: left-wing, right-wing by issue

seth 2006-07-11 09:00:03 3874
M 2006-07-11 08:17:06 3874
BTW, item 1 has a not in which reverses the polarity. 
Yep (1) has serious problems.  I think we need to delve into the source of political thinking where that idea came from.  This is your basic right of the individual vs right of the state.  What is so very strange in current affairs, especially on fastblogit, is that the current administration is severly infringing on the right of the individual even though we call Bush being a conservitive.  Do conservitives not see the right of the individual trumping the interests of the state?   How is it that the fear of terrorism has  changed that?  Please don't take this as an excuse to lob cutsie slogans ... i've just very curious how the right has reconsiled what to me sounds like a contradiction.  Perhaps i don't understand the political philosophy of the right ... perhaps you could point out where i have misstated the situation.   Is it a tennant of the right that a military threat means that we must sacrafice our individual freedoms?  Certainly i don't resent that i must be searched when i go on an airplane.  But i don't take that an an infringement on my freedome.  I do resent that our government tramples on the rights of individuals at Guantanamo.  I don't buy into the "them vs us" attitudes.  People are people regardless of their citizenship.  That's what we call human rights.  That stands above the local interests of US citizens.  The US government thinks is can righteously just "disappear" people. That is not right.  That is not justice.  There is no level of fear that justifies that level of infringement on human rights.  Sorry this paragraph is a bit rambeling.  I hope you will not cherry pick from it but will look behind the words for the real concerns.  How are those concerns to be expressed in the 10 belief catagories?  Or perhaps current affairs have gone beyond political logic and philosohpy.  People say that 911 change us.   Sure it changes us, but are we to allow it to wipe out the bill of rights?  We need to get past our instincts to throw left/right lobs and deal with these difficult issues. 
So what are your solutions ? You have never presented a solution. Currently the left is rabid Anti-Bush in a desperate attempt to regain their lost power. If we were a country that had absolute power we could tell the terrorists to cease & desist & that would be the end of it! But, we are fighting an asymmetric war which we did not start.  India has been fighting it since before Ghandi & last night they got a big dose of 8 terrorist bombs on a trainload of innocents. That is the reward of pacifism.
EXACTLY, what would you do with a terrorist captured on the battlefield or in an al-queda safe-house? EXACTLY HOW would you intercept terrorists plotting to attack our subways, ports & cities BEFORE the bombs & poison gases are set off. Don't tell me what you won't do - tell me what you would do!

Tags

  1. politics
  2. ~solutions

Comments


Mark de LA says
BTW, In a Seth government, how much would you tell the public knowing that all the time the terrorists are also listening?


Mark de LA says
seth 2006-07-11 11:10:42 3911
M 2006-07-11 10:37:01 3911
BTW, In a Seth government, how much would you tell the public knowing that all the time the terrorists are also listening?
The NYT did not inform the terrorist of anything that they did not already know.   BTW, this item needs a title.
I will take this as a NON-response!

Seth says
M 2006-07-11 11:16:20 3911
EXACTLY, what would you do with a terrorist captured on the battlefield or in an al-queda safe-house? EXACTLY HOW would you intercept terrorists plotting to attack our subways, ports & cities BEFORE the bombs & poison gases are set off. Don't tell me what you won't do - tell me what you would do!
Well for a start i would comply with Common Article 3 section (d) of the Geneva Conventions.  Look noone is suggesting hamstringing our defenses by mirandizing (etc) terrorists.  Going from one extreme to the other is not the solution, but throwing out human rights in fear of fear and thereby becomming exactly what we are fighting is not the solution either. 

Btw, my rambling paragraph was attempting to get closer to how to phrase (1).  How has you thinking changed in regards to (1) ?

Mark de LA says
seth 2006-07-11 12:09:54 3911
M 2006-07-11 11:16:20 3911
EXACTLY, what would you do with a terrorist captured on the battlefield or in an al-queda safe-house? EXACTLY HOW would you intercept terrorists plotting to attack our subways, ports & cities BEFORE the bombs & poison gases are set off. Don't tell me what you won't do - tell me what you would do!
Well for a start i would comply with Common Article 3 section (d) of the Geneva Conventions.  Look noone is suggesting hamstringing our defenses by mirandizing (etc) terrorists.  Going from one extreme to the other is not the solution, but throwing out human rights in fear of fear and thereby becomming exactly what we are fighting is not the solution either. 

Btw, my rambling paragraph was attempting to get closer to how to phrase (1).  How has you thinking changed in regards to (1) ?
Apparently Common Article 3 is subject to interpretation before implementation. What would you do to implement
source: ...
"judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples"
...
Basically, you have not answered the question.
As to phrase (1) - I think I have already said about all I need to say. It's not a good question withour refining context.

Mark de LA says
Again a non-response. It's always easier to say what you don't want and poke fun & darts at someone who has the guts to suggest solutions. Try coming up with one of your own. How would you implement Article 3?

Seth says
M 2006-07-11 12:20:56 3911
Apparently Common Article 3 is subject to interpretation before implementation. What would you do to implement
source: ...
"judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples"
The rules of the tribunals should include the right to confront one's accusor and to argue against the evidence presented.  Who knows perhaps if the tribunal is forced by its rules to open it's mind, it might find out that some of these people were just caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.  As the Supreme Court stated, the military has evolved mechinisms to protect sensitive information during procedures like this.  Anyway it looks like the process is well on its way to being fixed. 

Mark de LA says
Are muslims civilized people.  Their Sharia law has some fascinating penalties. Please look up Sharia in the Wikipedia for further explanation (linking there fails) . By their own law if caught & witnessed by 4 people of upstanding character in the act of planting a bomb for the purpose of murder they should be beheaded forthwith!
source: ... The punishment prescribed for murder is beheading; for theft, the amputation of the right hand; for blasphemy, stoning, and for drunkenness, severe flagellation. These punishments can be better understood in the context of the time they were introduced: the society in Arabia where Islam was first established was almost entirely lawless and blood feuds, which carried on for generations, were a widespread result of disputes. The method with which Islam brought these disputes to an end was straightforward retaliation (qisas) against the guilty parties. This may explain the name of these punishments - hadh - limitation [of feuds]. The Qur'an and hadith instruct that hudud punishments be used sparingly and only when the offender had been accused by four eyewitnesses of spotless moral character or has confessed to the crime.
...
 

Seth says
M 2006-07-11 12:55:50 3911
Are muslims civilized people.   
Absolutely irrelivant.  One does not need to adopt the morality of a person that one is fighting. Not that we are fighting muslims.

Mark de LA says
relevant ..... the quote is source: ...
"judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples" .. why can't we adopt muslim law for muslims ?


Seth says
M 2006-07-11 14:23:04 3911
relevant ..... the quote is source: ...
"judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples" .. why can't we adopt muslim law for muslims ?
No argument from me, but i doubt you will get it past the Christian right.

Mark de LA says
seth 2006-07-11 14:45:47 3911
M 2006-07-11 14:23:04 3911
relevant ..... the quote is source: ...
"judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples" .. why can't we adopt muslim law for muslims ?
No argument from me, but i doubt you will get it past the Christian right.
I'm talking about Gitmo. Behead the beheaders.

Seth says
M 2006-07-11 14:51:37 3911
seth 2006-07-11 14:45:47 3911
M 2006-07-11 14:23:04 3911
relevant ..... the quote is source: ...
"judicial guarantees which are recognized as indispensable by civilized peoples" .. why can't we adopt muslim law for muslims ?
No argument from me, but i doubt you will get it past the Christian right.
I'm talking about Gitmo. Behead the beheaders.
Yeah i got that part .

Seth says
Btw there is much more on this topic at A good day for America!

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