WAR!

   The purpose of war is to kill people & break things [in order to achieve political ends].  Our world is governed by the agressive use of force.  These dictums must be outgrown by humans if we want to progress beyond an animal stage of existence.
   Islamo-fascists & Islamist extremists don't care about life. This neutralizes the ordinary fear of death which persuades most sane peoples to behave.  Theocratic mania  is the soporific  of  the  poor, hungry & dispossessed.  It does not take hold of those who are  well-off mentally & physically.  Those who are not fully hypnotized  who come to this country  are  easily persuaded  otherwise than to commit suicide  for those 72 imaginary virgins (sheep?).
   So end poverty.
   In that part of the Earth we must end poverty if we expect to live on this Earth in a condition worth living on it.
   I don't know what Israel has in mind - survival by war? It won't work. It is like a man that jumps off a tall building and uses all his might in the last second to stay just one foot from the pavement. I liked the part in the movie Gandhi where a man came to Gandhi on his fasting bed who had killed a Hindu baby & was crying and wracked with guilt & asked Gandhi "How do I get out of Hell?" Gandhi replied "I know a way out of Hell - take a orphan baby as your own & raise it in your home as a Hindu." (I may have mixed this up a bit, but you may get the picture). The Jews & Arabs must take care of eachother. There have been far too many atrocities on both sides of the Middle East conflict. They have far too much in common. Their peoples were originally both from that part of the Earth.

Tags

  1. war
  2. islamofascists
  3. wars and rumors of wars
  4. wfb
  5. reference

Comments


Seth says
M 2006-07-24 10:32:12 3932
BTW, just as a thought exercise, look at your WFB links & notice that the article has changed underneath. Now, do you still have the same opinion about him as before ?
Well i noticed and had fixed the about link in 3944 a long time ago; but other links in comments would have remained inaccurate.  I've been watching the nationalreview just to keep up with the neocon rhetoric.

Mark de LA says
BTW, just as a thought exercise, look at your WFB links & notice that the article has changed underneath. Now, do you still have the same opinion about him as before ?


Seth says
Yes war is hell and is almost never necessary.  Btw it might go over better and be more convincing if you talked just about your islamofacists rather than Islam itself.  I do believe that Islam has none of that warmongering in there. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2006-07-14 13:35:59 3932
Yes war is hell and is almost never necessary.  Btw it might go over better and be more convincing if you talked just about your islamofacists rather than Islam itself.  I do believe that Islam has none of that warmongering in there. 
Duly noted. I thought they were the same.

Mark de LA says
You folks might want to look at the life of Mohammed as described in the Wikipedia here. Compare & contrast with the life of Jesus in the Wikipedia as well . Mohammed spent some considerable time in fighting & conflicts, not unlike the ones going on today. Jesus did not! Mohammed was married etc. Jesus devoted his life to his message & ministry. Current Islam focuses still on an oral tradition of what's in the Koran.  The Bible for Christians is written & interpreted.
I guess what suprised me was that Mohammed spent so much time in fighting & conquering. Was that a good beginning for a peaceful religion ?  How much of that is still in "the blood" ?
Of course you will probably bring up the early Christian Church Crusades & other stuff. But the Crusades were caused by the error of the churches, not Christ Jesus.   I don't know of any Buddhists who bring on great wars.

What is the answer to dueling religions ?


Mark de LA says
seth 2006-07-15 10:23:25 3932
M 2006-07-15 07:52:53 3932
What is the answer to dueling religions ?
Remove all concepts of intolerance from religious doctrines.
Yep, & while we are at it let's implement 3796

Mark de LA says
An interesting question is posed by WFB in his latest column here. Are we disposed to fight a religious war ?


Mark de LA says
seth 2006-07-16 09:09:58 3932
M 2006-07-15 16:55:52 3932
An interesting question is posed by WFB in his latest column here. Are we disposed to fight a religious war ?

Appawling .. he should be ashamed of himself 
As always, ad hominem, nothing of substance from Seth.

Mark de LA says
This book, The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (& the Crusades) ,  might be a fascinating read. This point fascinates in that if you make sex a forbidden, make women a possession & cover them up in public & then promise them as a reward in paradise in abundance you can get people to do anything like suicide bombings.
source: ... The ghastly lure of Islam's X-rated Paradise for suicide bombers and jihad terrorists
... Note: I don't doubt that it is one-sided & may contain inaccuracies. It's worth looking at from the aspect of knowing some of the people who are becoming your enemies. See also 2742 - strangely this showed up while google hashishians



Mark de LA says
BTW, how does a pacifist deal with an Islamo-fascist ?
Remember the joke about how you get a pacifist's attention?

Seriously, if you are committed to no guns & no violence how do you keep someone who is committed to your total destruction from getting his wish ?


Seth says
M 2006-07-18 14:02:25 3932
BTW, how does a pacifist deal with an Islamo-fascist ?
Remember the joke about how you get a pacifist's attention?

Seriously, if you are committed to no guns & no violence how do you keep someone who is committed to your total destruction from getting his wish ?
First you learn how to open a dialogue ... you learn how to talk with them.  Repeating the same failed rhetoric of the past 58 years will not do the trick.  That goes for us and that goes for them too. 

It seems obvious to me that Islam must change it's idea that Israel should not exist.  I had thought that we were over that idea when the Middle East peoples accepted the road map.  Yet that rhetoric continues to exist.  Why is that?  Perhaps people need to ratchet their minds back to when that road map was agreed upon.  The other part of the failed rhetoric is the neo-conservitive's adgenda for spreading democracy in the region.  That rhetoric needs to change ... democracy works for us, but not necessarily for Islam.  To quote from an recent acquaintance ...
source: Nicholas Heer, Professor Emeritus Near Eastern Languages and Civilization
In order to practice their religion fully Muslims must live in an Islamic state.  They should not live in non-Islamic states like those in Europe and the Americas. 
To practice religious tolerance, which is part of what it means to be an American, we need to respect that where it exists.  Setting our hearts and minds against Islamic regimes like Iran which combine church and state is a way that seems foreign to us, is the same kind of religious intolerance that permits Hezabola to reject the existance of Israel. 


Mark de LA says
Two terrorists are chatting. One of them has his wallet out and is flipping through pictures.
"Yeah, this is my oldest. He's a martyr."
"Here's my second son. He's a martyr, too." There's a pause...
The second terrorist says, wistfully...
"Ah, they blow up so fast, don't they?"



Mark de LA says
source: ... source: Nicholas Heer, Professor Emeritus Near Eastern Languages and Civilization
In order to practice their religion fully Muslims must live in an Islamic state.  They should not live in non-Islamic states like those in Europe and the Americas.
...& yet Muslims live in America & Europe & all over the world. Are they just not capable of freedom ? Maybe we should put those that live in America into nice concentration camps so that they will live in Sharia & practice their religion better.

Note to those who will listen:  Hamas & Hezbolla & Iran never accepted the road-map. They always will & until they die will want to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth.




Mark de LA says
source: ...
M 2006-07-18 14:56:06 3967 The other part of your suggestion which is ridiculous is that the Iranians themselves want to live in a theocracy. The mullahs & the dictator want it because of the seduction of power.  The people don't.  The mullahs & ayatollahs had to suppress dissent during the last election in order to get the outcome they wanted.  M, you do not know that.  i would be not be surprised to find that most Iranians are quite satisfied with their theocracy and much prefer it to a democracy.  On the other hand i would bet that there is quite a bit of dissent from the current leader of the country along with many of the mullahs who support him.  Just like there is quite a bit of dissent in our country against Bush's neo-consergvitive movement. source: ... Once you get the people feed, occupied with work, & out of poverty then educate them - after that, guess what? They will probably want freedom! Again, M, you do not know that.
...At one time I knew & worked with ~50 people from that area - quite some time ago, but after the revolution.   I am doing a little more than assuming. I have had conversations with some of them about the subject. Nobody wants to walk into a buzz-saw. With all the power in the hands of the mullahs & the theocracy - who would object out loud?  Just like not all Christians go to church or live all the rules of the Church - neither do those adherents of Islam. Your professor is still full of shit!
The challenge is for those who believe in a peaceful Islam to stand up NOW! & be counted.

Mark de LA says
seth 2006-07-24 10:49:25 3932
M 2006-07-24 10:32:12 3932
I've been watching the nationalreview just to keep up with the neocon rhetoric.
& as I also keep up with your leftist, anti-war pacifism

   FYI, I now identify more as a libertarian than a conservative... I don't like the notion behind the label of conservative. I can always go for liberty!
   Neocon is used a lot as a codeword for Jews or Jewish interests. It is basically a slurword by the left used in anti-semitic sense.  If you use it don't pretend to be tolerant. See the Wikipedia section - Neoconservatism, Judaism, and Dual Loyalty.

Seth says
M 2006-07-24 11:33:31 3932
seth 2006-07-24 10:49:25 3932
M 2006-07-24 10:32:12 3932
I've been watching the nationalreview just to keep up with the neocon rhetoric.
& as I also keep up with your leftist, anti-war pacifism

   FYI, I now identify more as a libertarian than a conservative... I don't like the notion behind the label of conservative. I can always go for liberty!
   Neocon is used a lot as a codeword for Jews or Jewish interests. It is basically a slurword by the left used in anti-semitic sense.  If you use it don't pretend to be tolerant. See the Wikipedia section - Neoconservatism, Judaism, and Dual Loyalty.
Wow talk about cherry picking.  For a more balenced view read the wole Neoconservatism article and google neocon for the more than 10,000,000 citations of the word .  You will find that only a very small persentage of them are voiced in support of Zionist causes.  But there is no doubt that this is a label affixed by the other side ... it is not a flag flown by neoconservitives.  In that sense it is just like your term "troglodyte".  Troglodytes don't call themselves "troglodytes".

Mark de LA says
source: ... But there is no doubt that this is a label affixed by the other side ... it is not a flag flown by neoconservitives.  In that sense it is just like your term "troglodyte".  Troglodytes don't call themselves "troglodytes".
... well, liberals until recently shuned being called liberals - mainly because if the voters knew where they really stood they would not get elected. The same goes for many other labels. Personally whatever you attempted to do with the word troglodyte missed the point & context of this article. It's not my term. Ask your friends in your cabal what the word neocon means (without telegraphing your own meaning) & see what they come up with.


Mark de LA says
Here is another interesting article about WFB where he departs company with W on Conservatism.


Seth says
M 2006-07-24 13:17:28 3932
Here is another interesting article about WFB where he departs company with W on Conservatism.
Well one cannnot read much of WFB without realizing that he is a bit right of Bush nevertheless i was pleased to hear this one ...
In particular, Buckley views the three-and-a-half-year Iraq War as a failure.  "If you had a European prime minister who experienced what we've experienced it would be expected that he would retire or resign," Buckley says.
Good find .  What i didn't realize untill just recently is that WFB is a card carrying spokes person of the religious right.  Previously I had always found him to be a rational man. 

Mark de LA says
source: ... What i didn't realize untill just recently is that WFB is a card carrying spokes person of the religious right.
... That could be true or false - not part of the article. I think he is a Roman Catholic & wrote a book called  Nearer, My God: An Autobiography of Faith - the concordance is online at amazon.com . I guess if you are conservative & religious then you are on the religious right which is probably a good thing. Nothing wrong with that! I don't think you will find him or his writings in the same camp as Falwell & Robertson.


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