Cut and run ?

About: A Call to Support Democracy


source: about above
The controversy over the decision by the United States to remove the Saddam Hussein regime should not prevent an honest assessment of the situation of Iraq today. That the post-Hussein period was not well managed is now widely acknowledged. But we are where we are, and there is a future for all our children to secure. Plan B, advocated by Friedman and others, is to abandon the region to religious fanatics and Baathist terrorists. It is nothing but a declaration of defeat dressed up to look like a vision for the future.
Well said.  Strangely enough i agree.  I was thinking this same thought yesterday myself.  To cut and run may not be the best long range stratagy.  If it were me i would form a comminssion of experts none of whom have a dog in the war and use it as a think tank to get some fresh ideas about our Iraq policy.  There is no way that the partisan political environment of Washington is going to be able to come up with a win-win solution to our current dilema.  We should lock some people who really know the area and its people and its political dynamics in a room ... let them blue sky ... let them come up with some viable options. 

Apparently there are alternatives to cut-and-run or stay-the-course.
source:  Joseph Biden ranking Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee
First, the plan calls for maintaining a unified Iraq by decentralizing it and giving Kurds, Shiites and Sunnis their own regions. The central government would be left in charge of common interests, such as border security and the distribution of oil revenue.
some indication of this in this Aljazeera article: Iraq mulls federal break up.

One argument against a rapid exit from Iraq is that a bloody civil war would almost certainly ensue.  That argument diminishes daily as the bloody civil war ensues in any case.

Tags

  1. policy
  2. iraq
  3. joseph biden
  4. cut and run
  5. stay the course
  6. iraq breakup

Comments


Mark de LA says
seth 2006-08-21 13:38:10 4205
The "the elections, and formation of a constitution" was rushed to keep up with some artificial time table that was established for political purposes in Washington DC.   Many of the real Iraqi at the time were advising against it as it was constituted.  They were warning of a civil war.  They were pleading to consider a multi state option.   But they were ignored ... why?  Me thinks it was so that Bush could stand up in front of Congress in the state of the nation and claim to be solving the problem.  Me also think it sucks !

Sounds like you have been eating pundit pellik & drinking the liberal kool aid.  You can't deny the elections just because you would like them to disappear - even in this country. There were lots of people with purple fingers in Iraq.  The people who do not like that are those who want democracy to fail. These are the enemies of Iraq & America & probably the left-wing liberals.

Seth says
Even if the National Review gets it ...
source: Bush's Brain
A National Review editorial this month concluded the president has a problem connecting with the American people on Iraq: "It is time for the Bush administration to acknowledge that its approach of assuring people that progress is being made and operating on that optimistic basis in Iraq isn't working."
... M, apparently does not.

Seth says
The "the elections, and formation of a constitution" was rushed to keep up with some artificial time table that was established for political purposes in Washington DC.   Many of the real Iraqi at the time were advising against it as it was constituted.  They were warning of a civil war.  They were pleading to consider a multi state option.   But they were ignored ... why?  Me thinks it was so that Bush could stand up in front of Congress in the state of the nation and claim to be solving the problem.  Me also think it sucks !


Mark de LA says
seth 2006-08-21 13:46:41 4205
Even if the National Review gets it ...
source: Bush's Brain
A National Review editorial this month concluded the president has a problem connecting with the American people on Iraq: "It is time for the Bush administration to acknowledge that its approach of assuring people that progress is being made and operating on that optimistic basis in Iraq isn't working."
... M, apparently does not.
National Review has both sides. I notice you left out the link to this one.

Seth says
M 2006-08-21 14:25:40 4205
Sounds like you have been eating pundit pellik & drinking the liberal kool aid.  You can't deny the elections just because you would like them to disappear - even in this country. There were lots of people with purple fingers in Iraq.  The people who do not like that are those who want democracy to fail. These are the enemies of Iraq & America & probably the left-wing liberals.
Well if you would stop smacking your lips on neocon caviar long enough to read the news, you would recognize that eventually something has got to give.  How many years has it been?  And every day it gets worse.  I have no interest in seeing democracy fail, but at the same time i don't have any more stomach for living in this LaLa land in which it is imagined to be succeeding.

Mark de LA says
I guess that you didn't believe in the elections, formation of a constitution etc. that was all done in a public way in Iraq. The current government asked the US to stay on while stabilizing the insurgents & terrorists  attacks . Had they elected an Ayatollah & sharia law for a constitution & asked us to leave in the same way they elected the current democracy we would have been out of there, unhappily.
Cut & Run is the left-wing Democrat's way of trying to insure failure & therefore their delusional , misguided power back.


Seth says
M 2006-08-21 12:53:46 4205
PS. Cut & Run is exactly the left-wing liberal solution! That's exactly what regime change in this country means! Why should anyone except the Iraqis determine what to do with their country from this point forward ? It has been said that unbeknownst to Western liberals that the Iraqi people think of themselves as Iraqis first & other groupings second.  The insurgents & terrorists are winning S's mind but not the majority of the Iraqis.
Shouldn't we be clear about this ... "cut and run" is the senario in which the Iraqi people determine what to do with their country.  "Stay the course" is the senario where US trys to impose its kind of democracy on the population.  Does anyone have any doubt that if we withdraw that government will collapse? 

Mark de LA says
US policy should be to support the Iraqi government & withdraw when asked as is what is stated & going on now. Anybody in Iraq who is not aligned with the government as dully elected should be peaceful & wait for the next election. Otherwise they should be arrested or killed.


Seth says
M 2006-08-21 11:51:33 4205
source: ... We should lock some people who really know the area and its people and its political dynamics in a room ... let them blue sky ... let them come up with some viable options.
... hmmm.... I thought that was called the Iraqi parliament & government .
Note we are talking about US Policy here. 

Seth says
M 2006-08-21 12:29:39 4205
US policy should be to support the Iraqi government & withdraw when asked as is what is stated & going on now. Anybody in Iraq who is not aligned with the government as dully elected should be peaceful & wait for the next election. Otherwise they should be arrested or killed.
That is called Plan A ... or "stay the course".  There are some of us who do not think it is working and that its basic dysfunctional nature will become progressively clear as the months roll by.  Hopefully soon we will have a change of regime here in the states and other options will be considered.  One of them might be to break up Iraq ... a Sunni state, probably under the current "government", a Shia state, and a Kurdish state.  That solution does pretty much eliminate the civil war, does it not?  Like i should have said in my item above: I do not have the solution.  But i expect that the American voters will be rejecting Plan A.  My point here is that "cut and run" is not its viable alternative.  Hopefully liberal democrats will come to the same conclusion.

Seth says
M 2006-08-21 14:25:40 4205
seth 2006-08-21 13:38:10 4205
The "the elections, and formation of a constitution" was rushed to keep up with some artificial time table that was established for political purposes in Washington DC.   Many of the real Iraqi at the time were advising against it as it was constituted.  They were warning of a civil war.  They were pleading to consider a multi state option.   But they were ignored ... why?  Me thinks it was so that Bush could stand up in front of Congress in the state of the nation and claim to be solving the problem.  Me also think it sucks !

Sounds like you have been eating pundit pellik & drinking the liberal kool aid.  You can't deny the elections just because you would like them to disappear - even in this country. There were lots of people with purple fingers in Iraq.  The people who do not like that are those who want democracy to fail. These are the enemies of Iraq & America & probably the left-wing liberals.
No need to "deny the elections", see Biden's 5 point plan

Seth says
I think we need to realize that this is what "breaking up Iraq into separate states"  might actually look like ..
source: Militants declare creation of state
A militant network that includes al Qaeda in Iraq declared in a video yesterday that it had established an Islamic state in six provinces where Sunni Muslims are dominant.
Then we wonder what "US to stop Iraq nation building and simply thwart Iran" actually looks like. This is the replace Sadam with US troops senario ... it reestablishes the balance of power that existed in the ME prior to the invasion.

Then, because i am not running for election, i wonder what "cut and run" actually looks like.  This is the "it's not our business, let the region solve its own problems" solution.  It may not be as bad as the talking heads tell us.  Especially given the alternatives.  The Bush doctrine would fall, of course.  But our "prestige" in the world might actually improve.  We would no longer be the bulley.  The screams of appeasement would be met with ... this is the way to transcend our national RWG.

I'm not saying or advocating any solution here ... i'm just saying that all solutions must be looked at ... and not through rose colored glasses either.

louis vuitton online says
i like it!

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