Political Campaigns, Straw men, and Hyocracy

source: Mark on 4813 posted about 4812
A natural extension of life might just as well be the harvesting of organs from anyone that dies because those are just "wasted organs" which will die anyway. (It's coming - just wait & see!)  This is a similar argument & ethics to those who want to play around with embryonic stem cells in order to find a cure for diseases like MJF has.
That has nothing to do with embryonic stem cell research. In fact it is almost the opposite. There is no similarity of argument or ethics between stem cell research and harvesting. Now i do understand that it is easier to argue against an ugly straw man propped up against what someone says; but it does not further the science and art of dialogue about that subject. This kind of lying about what someone says is, i had thought, what you were decrying in your comments about political campaigns. How so very strange it must feel to you to justify to yourself to do it as well. Would you have me do it to you?


If you eliminate the straw man argument from you item, then your valid arguments reduce to:
  1. It is arrogant to artifically heal ourself.
  2. Public money should not be used for reasearch that does not correspond to what some people call Christian ethics.

Tags

  1. life
  2. straw man
  3. politics
  4. michael fox
  5. selective spending
  6. rwg
  7. stem cells

Comments


Mark de LA says
seth 2006-10-30 09:53:30 4815
M 2006-10-30 09:42:05 4815
If you are a materialist you will not know the difference between an embryo & a clump of cells. 
Sans linguistic confusion they sound like two different signs for the same thing.  My point in 4812 is: that thing is sublime.
I rest my case!

Seth says
M 2006-10-30 09:42:05 4815
If you are a materialist you will not know the difference between an embryo & a clump of cells. 
Sans linguistic confusion they sound like two different signs for the same thing.  My point in 4812 is: that thing is sublime.

Mark de LA says
Items 1 & 2 are your argument summations , NOT mine. If you are a materialist you will not know the difference between an embryo & a clump of cells. You won't know the difference between a dead body & an organ bank.  Your use of the word straw-man is a straw-man.
Happy Halloween & birthday, BTW!




Mark de LA says
BTW Dude,  I added an extra couplet on the RWG today just for your "liar" argumentation.


Seth says
M 2006-10-30 10:05:56 4815
seth 2006-10-30 09:53:30 4815
M 2006-10-30 09:42:05 4815
If you are a materialist you will not know the difference between an embryo & a clump of cells. 
Sans linguistic confusion they sound like two different signs for the same thing.  My point in 4812 is: that thing is sublime.
Then why unleash the witch-doctors on it when you call it an embryo ?
The "witch-doctors" is a pejorative word for research scientist.  "Embyro" is a word refering to the same thing that you pedoritively described as "a clump of cells".  There is no "when" ... both terms ("embryo" and "clump of cells") refer to the exact same thing.  My thesis is that:  this thing is sublime.  Trying to imply things in my thesis that are not there by switching the signs around is engaging in propoganda.  It does not help us get closer to a realistic view of the situation. If you do have an honest question about my thesis, i will gladly answer it.  However, i will waste no more time in trying to deconfuse your language.

Mark de LA says
A random clump of cells will not necessarily develop into a human being. I can scrape a clump of cells out of my rectum & they wouldn't necessarily develop into an abortionist.

Seth says
M 2007-01-17 07:16:41 4815
A random clump of cells will not necessarily develop into a human being. I can scrape a clump of cells out of my rectum & they wouldn't necessarily develop into an abortionist.
A medical scientist knows the difference between an embryo and a random clump of cells.  Such a scientist would be able to tell you the difference in minute detail.  Such a scientist also know the difference between an organ bank and a live person.  Such a scientist as a human being is also capabel of making ethical decisicons relating to the treatment of both kinds of things.  But such a scientist may not necessarily believe that a metaphysical essence sometimes called a "soul" has been attached to the embryo.  Such a belief is part of religion.  That belief either is, or is not, in the mind of the scientist as no science has ever found such an attachment.  I think we can agree on that ... the rest is just mud slinging and propoganda language ... is it not?

The point of 4812 is to celebrate an embryo quite apart from any religious belief.  An embryo is a facinating clump of cells.  One does not need to attach any metaphysical essence to it to be astonished by its manifestations.

Mark de LA says
Yep, scientists CAN tell the difference yet they ACT as if there is no difference! I suspect that an ethicist can make all arguments against abortion without having to resort to religion or metaphysics.  My stand is still firm! It is none of the government's business, including the funding stem cell experiments on the residue of unused embryos. See 1535 and 3528.

Seth says

The important debate here is whether we allow public policy to be governed by religious belief.  Do we have a secular government or a sectarian government.  I think examples like Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia show us the folly of sectarian governments.  To allow it even in a small measure is a slippery slope.  Let us not fall down that cliff.  


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