A History Book With An Heinous Intent

About: mike rosen interviews robert spencer


This is a very short book.  To short, for it tells only half of the story, and as such it's title is a misrepresentation.  Stay tuned, on this blog and perhaps I can find you the rest of the the story.  Unfortunately what has happened here is that those who are actively selling a war against Islam, now have their bible.

The first I heard of this sales campaign for a religious war was here ...
source: William F Buckley
Why is Islam burning bright? What on earth do they have that we don't get from Christ our King?  If what they want is a religious war, are we disposed to fight it?
But it is being fueled from both sides.  Just like every other war in our history.  If necessary i can quote Osama and some of his sources.  Here we have it from the Muslim Brotherhood ...
source: Wikipedia
As stated on its charter and its website, the Muslim Brotherhood seeks to install a just Islamic empire and a Caliphate across the muslim world, through stages designed to Islamicize targeted muslim majority nations by all lawful means available.
...  But then the president of the United States echos the theme ...
source: President Bush (here and elsewhere all over the country)
We face a cold-blooded enemy. You can't negotiate with these people. You cannot hope for the best, because they are ideologues bound by the desire to inflict damage on nations which love freedom. They will murder the innocent. They have no conscience. And they murder to achieve an objective, and that's what's important for our fellow citizens to understand. It may sound far-fetched to some Americans out there, but this group of ideologues wants to establish a caliphate, a governing body, a -- they want to spread their ideology of hate from Indonesia to Spain. That's what they have so declared. And they recognize in order to do that they must inflict serious damage on America to the point where we're willing to retreat from the Middle East so they can topple moderate governments.
... Now when the US government sends American boys over there they will be fighting the Caliphate, not the spread of communism.  Wow, this is somthing that can now enflame our passions!  Fight the Caliphate!  Now we need not just fight fear itself in the guize of a global war against terrorism ... now we can fight the evil empire directly.  Oh goodie, goodie, gumdrops.

But I say it is not history that needs to be dredged up ... what we need is to be able to hear the actual message comming out of the mouths of our demigods.  Then once heard, reject it.  Reject it like the people of Germany should have rejected Hitler's bombastic tirades against the evil Jews of Europe. 

There are some truths that we make ourselves.  The "truth" in the title of Spencer's book, "Mohammad Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion" is a truth like "You will never amount to anything" ... such a truth is just as true are you choose it to be.  It is not the kind of truth that can be documented in a history book.  This book will just rub salt in the wounds of millions of Muslims who are struggling to subject their will to a cosmic wisdom.  Instead, please replace that supposed "truth", however factual, with one that leads to peace.

For those of you who think there no movement in the West to demonize Islam should read this report about what Reverand David Clippard said at the Southern Baptist Convention ...
source: St. Louis Post-Dispatch
In an interview Tuesday, Clippard said he believed the Islamic "strategy for taking over America" was to wait until there was a Muslim majority here and then "eradicate those who don't conform to their religion."

On Monday night, he told the crowd that "your freedom is on the floor with their foot on it, with their sword raised, and if you don't convert, your head comes off."
So do you think it wise to crank up this war?  I sure don't.  The need for this war is a lie that some people are trying to turn into a truth.

Tags

  1. islam
  2. robert spencer
  3. drums of war
  4. muhammad
  5. intolerance
  6. item 4841
  7. war
  8. religious war
  9. jehad
  10. mark steyn

Comments


Mark de LA says
source: ... There are some truths that we make ourselves.  The "truth" in the title of Spencer's book, "Mohammad Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion" is a truth like "You will never amount to anything" ... such a truth is just as true are you choose it to be.  It is not the kind of truth that can be documented in a history book.  This book will just rub salt in the wounds of millions of Muslims who are struggling to subject their will to a cosmic wisdom.  Instead, please replace that supposed "truth", however factual, with one that leads to peace.
... Your theory that you can make your own truth is specious. Test it out & make your own truth about something. Write a book about something of your own & see if you can have it become a truth.  See if others will hail it as a new & fundamental truth previously unknown!  It is hard for me to put my finger exactly on the thing that causes you to put out so  flawed an idea. The most obvious part is that a book or a person or an idea does not live in a vacuum by itself.  Others come along and modify ideas, argue, counter etc. It is the total conversation that has some validity, but is not the truth itself.   Please do not confuse things that are popular, have large followings or false prophets with the truth. Spencer's book will not cause Islamic wars or terror. Indeed it just proves his point - he said in the interview that he also has a death sentence given to him by those so-called tolerant muslims for writing his books.


Seth says
M 2006-11-03 08:47:31 4852
I think the word heinous in your title is overkill & hyperbole. How will people believe you if you exaggerate? He raises questions & presents arguments from his research. 
Yep i pondered that word long and hard.  It came down to saying something or saying nothing. My node here is about the intent of the author and those who use his work, rather than the history that he reported ... which, however cherry picked, is, we must assume, relatively acurrate.  What word, keeping with my message in this node, would you use to describe that intent ?

Mark de LA says
seth 2006-11-03 09:40:21 4852
M 2006-11-03 09:38:49 4852
seth 2006-11-03 09:11:53 4852
M 2006-11-03 08:47:31 4852
I think the word heinous in your title is overkill & hyperbole. How will people believe you if you exaggerate? He raises questions & presents arguments from his research. 
Yep i pondered that word long and hard.  It came down to saying something or saying nothing. My node here is about the intent of the author and those who use his work, rather than the history that he reported ... which, however cherry picked, is, we must assume, relatively acurrate.  What word, keeping with my message in this node, would you use to describe that intent ?
From his perspective he is exposing Islamic intolerance.
Yes, so his title says.  You didnt answer my question.
Well actually I did, I just didn't put it together for you - here goes:

A History Book exposing Islamic Intolerance


Seth says
M 2006-11-03 09:38:49 4852
seth 2006-11-03 09:11:53 4852
M 2006-11-03 08:47:31 4852
I think the word heinous in your title is overkill & hyperbole. How will people believe you if you exaggerate? He raises questions & presents arguments from his research. 
Yep i pondered that word long and hard.  It came down to saying something or saying nothing. My node here is about the intent of the author and those who use his work, rather than the history that he reported ... which, however cherry picked, is, we must assume, relatively acurrate.  What word, keeping with my message in this node, would you use to describe that intent ?
From his perspective he is exposing Islamic intolerance.
Yes, so his title says.  You didnt answer my question.

Seth says
M 2006-11-03 09:38:49 4852
seth 2006-11-03 09:11:53 4852
M 2006-11-03 08:47:31 4852
I think the word heinous in your title is overkill & hyperbole. How will people believe you if you exaggerate? He raises questions & presents arguments from his research. 
Yep i pondered that word long and hard.  It came down to saying something or saying nothing. My node here is about the intent of the author and those who use his work, rather than the history that he reported ... which, however cherry picked, is, we must assume, relatively acurrate.  What word, keeping with my message in this node, would you use to describe that intent ?
From his perspective he is exposing Islamic intolerance.
Well actually he is exposing the violent history of Muhammad ... not quite the same thing.  But that does not answer my question which was a request for a descriptive characterization of his intent and the intent of those who will be using his book ... for example as you used it.

Seth says
M 2006-11-03 09:43:03 4852
seth 2006-11-03 09:40:21 4852
M 2006-11-03 09:38:49 4852
seth 2006-11-03 09:11:53 4852
M 2006-11-03 08:47:31 4852
I think the word heinous in your title is overkill & hyperbole. How will people believe you if you exaggerate? He raises questions & presents arguments from his research. 
Yep i pondered that word long and hard.  It came down to saying something or saying nothing. My node here is about the intent of the author and those who use his work, rather than the history that he reported ... which, however cherry picked, is, we must assume, relatively acurrate.  What word, keeping with my message in this node, would you use to describe that intent ?
From his perspective he is exposing Islamic intolerance.
Yes, so his title says.  You didnt answer my question.
Well actually I did, I just didn't put it together for you - here goes:

A History Book exposing Islamic Intolerance

Doesn't work ... it does not characterize his intent.  That would change the topic of the node.

Seth says
M 2006-11-03 09:49:13 4852
Well I guess we just disagree. IMHO, that was exactly his intent !
Fair enough ... i can accept that he was trying to expose the history of Islamic intolerance. 

Now why is he doing that now?

Seth says
I just listened to the whole podcast of Spencer being interviewed.  One thing Spencer says is that Islamist though is in the vanguard of intellectual Muslim clerics.  That, pretty much, directly contradicts what Kahaled Abou El Fadl says in the Great Theft.  Kahaled paints quite a different picture ... one where the Wahhabi interpretation is a minor corruption of main stream Muslim intellectualism.  So what we have is dueling experts. Spencer does talk with a voice that sounds absolutely convinced of its opinions ... but that does not lend any credence to their validity ... sometimes that is hard to realize.  He does make a case for the West's war against Islam.  He is trying to make that a truth.  If enough of our leaders start buying into what Spencer is selling, then you will have your truth.  But hopefully they will not buy his train of though.  See M's node, [title mike rosen interviews robert spencer], for  more context about Spencer's book.

Seth says
M 2006-11-04 08:59:16 4852
I was mainly talking about his book.  As I listened to his interview I found no case to go to war. 
It would not have been in the book mentioned in this item in any case, as that book was about ancient times and not modern times.

Seth says
M 2006-11-04 08:23:11 4852
seth 2006-11-04 08:16:04 4852
M 2006-11-04 05:11:11 4852
Where specifically does Spencer call for a war against Islam?  If he does indeed do that that I will shun him & his works for the rest of his life! Otherwise I suspect you are in the grips of paranoia.
I said: "He does make a case for the West's war against Islam."   Did you not hear that case being made in the interview?
I guess you can't read - note the word "specifically" above. Your assertions may or not be true or false.
I never said he "called" for a war against Islma specifically.  What i did say, was that "He does make a case for the West's war against Islam".  He never did call for a war, nor would he, as such that would be a function of a politician, but he is an academic.  I do strive to make my messages actually as true as possible.  I will stand behind them.  If you want to challenge that, we can relisten to his interview for a better truth.

Seth says
Here is another book that needs to be studied in this regard ...

... article by the author, review at amazon, reaction from Israpundit.

So what do we have here?  ... dualing ideologies?  ... the struggle for the soul of America?  I guess the old ideological divide of the cold war no longer applies.  Excuse my while i barf at the new ones being proposed ...

Denise says
Ya'all don need to worry bout the Muslims, cos the rednecks and the skinheads and the KKK gonna take care of them all right.

Mark de LA says
Denise 2006-11-11 10:37:38 4852
Ya'all don need to worry bout the Muslims, cos the rednecks and the skinheads and the KKK gonna take care of them all right.

this is strange!

Seth says
mark 2006-11-10 11:13:58 4852
seth 2006-11-08 14:37:10 4852
source: Let's Stop Stereotyping Evangelicalswashingtonpost.com
Of course it's true that a handful of Christian figures reinforce the worst stereotypes of the movement. Their loopy and triumphalist claims are seized upon by lazy journalists and the direct-mail operatives of political opponents.Yet it is dishonest to disparage the massive civic and democratic contribution of evangelicals by invoking the excesses of a tiny few.
... So why can we not say the same for Muslims ?

There do not seem to be that many muslims criticizing from within Islam. The extremists get all the press.
In general you don't see a lot of clergy bickering between factions of any religion - Christianity included.  Matters of faith and dogma cannot be resolved by dialog and the clergy know that ... so it is a matter of reputation and authority within each congregation.  I don't think you hang out in mosks to hear moderate muslims criticizing the radical violence of different factions, so you really do not know what is happening there, do you?

Seth says
It just dawned on me that the biggest proof that the West is not in a struggle against fundamentalist Islam, is Saudi Arabia ... which is the very heart land of Salafism .... yet they are considered our friend and allies, and even though they have a policy of agressively spreading their beliefs, they are pecieved not to be threat to the West.   A Shia state of Iran is no more of a threat than Saudia Arabia.  What is a treat, on its face, is a politician like Ahmadinejad.  We really should not get confused between the spread of Islam and the rhetoric of a crazed and empassioned politician.  The great war of the mid 20th century was not against the German ZeitGeist, it was against Hitler.

Mark de LA says
& then there are the Wahabi & Osama BinLaden.

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