bozo unvindicated

About: the flat-out truth

RE: Truth is relative to the group.
I say:
The earth was FLAT for many years & then it became a sphere when Columbus discovered the West Indies.

There are a few cooks who still hang on to the idea that the Earth is flat, though.

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Seth says
I don't grok your point in this item. This item points to an example where (statement "earth is flat") was true to (pre scientific society) where as now (statement "earth is flat") is not true to (today's scientific society). That is an example of relative truth. Bozo is vindicated !

Seth says
me thinks you are still operating under the assumption that Truth is something other than just a tag affixed to a linguistic statement by some social group and or process.

Mark de LA says
According to Bozo the statement in bold must be true !

Seth says
Truth is just a propositional attitude

Seth says

The earth was FLAT for many years & then it became a sphere when Columbus discovered the West Indies.

I would not put it that way. I would say it the way i said it in my first comment on this item.

Mark de LA says
Was or was not the earth flat then & is or is it not flat now ?

Seth says
You are asking me as if what i say in terms of linguistic statements now have any bearing on the matter. Whatever i say now is just another statement like maybe what Eurethesies said in 200 BC ... different times different contexts ... roughfuly same linguistic statements ... the truth of those lintguistic statements varies with the group of people evaluating them and the context they bring to the evaluation. Our problem here is that you are trying to make this "truth" tag mean more than it usefully can mean.

Mark de LA says
& did it change between (pre scientific society) and now ?

Mark de LA says
I am just extrapolating absurd statements to their absurd conclusion (:-))

Mark de LA says
Well, for starters the statement that the "speed of light ......stays fixed" may or not be truth - some say it is infinite.

Seth says

& did it change between (pre scientific society) and now ?

Only thing that changed was the group that was evaluating the "truth" tagging or that is taking a "truth" attitude twards that statement. IOW the frame of reference changed. Things that change with different frames of reference are called relative. The speed of light is not one of them, that stays fixed regardless of your frame of reference. Find me something like the speed of light for linguistic statements and ill start to think that truth is not relative.

Mark de LA says
The statement "I AM" said by a person internally (or externally) to the universe & himself is fairly constant.

Seth says
also pretty meainingless

Mark de LA says
again, need to get bipped up-side the head a few times to wake up to the fact it's not meaningless. What do you suppose all those stories about the zen masters whacking their students was all about ??

Mark de LA says
It sort of separates the boundary between you and your mind & environment (;-)) - the environment won't feal the pain, but YOU would .

Mark de LA says
maybe that s/b "feel" - somethimes i need a spelling checker too!

Seth says
You are just defined by your boundary ... you being everything within that boundary. Thing is that this boundary is pretty arbitrary and is relative to the group that defines it.

Mark de LA says
In this thought experiment I suppose that if I were to bip you upside the head - the boundary feeling pain would NOT be fuzzy or arbitrary. Experience rules !

Seth says
So that DeGaul says "I am France" ... he identifies with that national boundary. I used to totally identify with the boundary P2 ... one of the reasons that i went crazy there ... P2 as a boundary was not all that healthy. See unhealthy cells.

Mark de LA says
P2 ?

Mark de LA says
can test DeGaul's statement & find it is false - since the Germans could have killed deGaul & France would not have died.

Seth says

In this thought experiment I suppose that if I were to bip you upside the head - the boundary feeling pain would NOT be fuzzy or arbitrary. Experience rules !

If you were to bip me up side the head, then what is within the boundary of my skin might exclaim OUCH ... so what ... am not groking your point

Seth says

can test DeGaul's statement & find it is false - since the Germans could have killed deGaul & France would not have died.

That statement was true to DeGaul, and it was true to a lot of Frenshmen at the time too. Fact is that many at that time would have condisered that France would have died had DeGaul died. There are lots of concepts like this ... lots of boundaries the meaning of which are sustained by the activities of one man or a group of men. Should they die .. then the concept dies ... and all that the word refered to dies as well ... dies as in is no longer active in the now.

Mark de LA says
Will al Queda go away if BinLaden gets killed and buried in a pig carcas while he is pissed on by his 70 syphilitic virgins ??

Seth says
... obviously not ... al Queda is sustained by the actions of many people

Mark de LA says
a shotgun blast thru the brain is a good discriminant for dead . most of the rest of this is just intellectualistic.

Seth says
... right ... and all of the truth of statements is some of that which you call "intellectualistic" ... which is why i never touch the stuff :)

Seth says
... and why i say Logic is great, Survival is better!

Mark de LA says
& in similarly circular fashion why I say "The earth was FLAT for many years & then it became a sphere when Columbus discovered the West Indies. " is a statement that only Seth could believe is true.

bozo unvindicated

About: the flat-out truth

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