Capitulation

About: the west and islam:

Read ALL 3  parts of the Der Spiegel article to get an interesting CURRENT & HISTORICAL perspective on the struggle between the West and Radical Islam.

Tags

  1. the west
  2. radical islam
  3. capitulation
  4. radicalism

Comments


Mark de LA says
So many good quotes in this 3-part commentary. This is nearly the punchline:
source: ...
In 1972, more than three decades ago, Danish lawyer and part-time politician Mogens Glistrup had an idea that brought him instant fame. To save taxes, he proposed that the Danish army be disbanded and an answering machine be set up in the defense ministry that would play the following message: "We capitulate!" Not only would it save money, Glistrup argued, but it would also save lives in an emergency. On the strength of this "program," Glistrup's Progress Party managed to become the second-most powerful political party in the Danish parliament in the 1973 elections.
... I guess now is the time to go kiss Jane Fonda's ass.


Mark de LA says
source: ...
What would be the consequential damage of an Iranian nuclear attack once the country is capable of producing and using a nuclear bomb? No one wants to address this question, and for good reason: No one knows how to prevent an Iranian nuclear attack, or even how to influence the Iranians' policies. In contrast, there is a very small but real possibility that public pressure can be used to influence the American government to move in one direction or another.
... IT IS ALL ABOUT THE FEAR!


Mark de LA says
Just another illustration!


Mark de LA says
Now you are down to calling people Adolf Hitler.  How far down are you going to go ?

Seth says
The assumptions of this article are: I'm right, you're wrong ... here,  "I" is current Germanic values, and "you" are Islamic values.  But i don't accept that assumption.  Hense the article is very difficult for me to read in detail, although i did skim it.  It reminds me of trying to read this in detail.  What surprises me is that you don't recognize fear mongering propoganda when you see it. Instead you bill it as "interesting CURRENT & HISTORICAL perspective".   Well read some of the material under my hyperlink ... if you change the background (view,page style, no style) it makes it easier to read.  Btw, I'm not afraid of the Islmaic way of life ... i'm not afraid that it will take over my life ... i'm not afraid that it will take over the life of my community ... are you?

Mark de LA says
So Muslims enforcing Sharia in the good old USA is OK by Seth? Read this article. Or maybe Muslims should have their own prayer rooms in airports too?  What next? How about special markings for the direction of Mecca in school class rooms & stopping class 6 times a day for Muslim prayers?


Mark de LA says
seth 2007-01-30 07:36:03 5871
M 2007-01-30 07:27:23 5871
Muslims cab drivers NOW refuse to service people who have alcohol with them (In Minnesota) and seeing eye dogs for the blind
So take another cab ... eventually the cab drivers will learn that their policies are contrproductive to their own survival.  This is really not a problem ... it is just a news story ... follow it up in a year and you will see that there are no people in Minnesota who are practically being denied service.  Btw, there are laws on the books in most states that prohibit open alcohol containers in a moving vehicle ... i'm glad that cabbies are enforcing that law.
Your ignorance on the matter is showing. Read the article!  The alcohol is that which was purchased at the airport duty free.

Seth says
M 2007-01-30 07:27:23 5871
Muslims cab drivers NOW refuse to service people who have alcohol with them (In Minnesota) and seeing eye dogs for the blind
So take another cab ... eventually the cab drivers will learn that their policies are contrproductive to their own survival.  This is really not a problem ... it is just a news story ... follow it up in a year and you will see that there are no people in Minnesota who are practically being denied service.  Btw, there are laws on the books in most states that prohibit open alcohol containers in a moving vehicle ... i'm glad that cabbies are enforcing that law.

Mark de LA says
seth 2007-01-30 07:20:56 5871
M 2007-01-30 07:12:25 5871
So Muslims enforcing Sharia in the good old USA is OK by Seth? Read this article. Or maybe Muslims should have their own prayer rooms in airports too?  What next? How about special markings for the direction of Mecca in school class rooms & stopping class 6 times a day for Muslim prayers?
Our civil liberties, and the separation of church and state, will protect us from any imposition of Sharia in the USA.  You should believe in  the ideology upon which our country was founded. It is strong.  This ideology does not need to be protected by dint of foreign wars.  Following our own pricipals here at home will be quite sufficeint.
Muslims cab drivers NOW refuse to service people who have alcohol with them (In Minnesota) and seeing eye dogs for the blind - wake up!

Seth says
M 2007-01-30 09:12:14 5871
seth 2007-01-30 09:00:57 5871
M 2007-01-30 08:55:22 5871
I am NOT AFRAID (period). Get over it!
Then stop your fear mongering !

I do not monger fear - that's your bag!
Your statement above, " ... IT IS ALL ABOUT THE FEAR!", and your choice of cartoons not withstanding.

Mark de LA says
seth 2007-01-30 08:04:33 5871
M 2007-01-30 07:50:26 5871
Your ignorance on the matter is showing. Read the article!  The alcohol is that which was purchased at the airport duty free.
Whatever ...that was a minor point.  Don't ignore my main point above.  Of course if you just want to argue about it and appear to yourself as if you are right ... go ahead and do whatever. 

Most of the cabbies in Seattle are Muslems, but they will not be able to impose their Shaia rules on our population ... all they will end up doing is loosing their jobs.  You seem to be so afraid of Muslims that you have lost all faith in the strength of the American way of life. Go to the mall and wallow in it ... buy a trinket ... go to a topless bar ... have no fear your way of life is protected by the virulent entrapuneral spirit of the American people.  Religious disputes are not the business of government ... enforcing the law of the land is.  Justifying foreign wars based upon these fears is shere perversion of thought. 
I AM NOT AFRAID OF MUSLIMS. You, SIR, seem to be afraid of Americans. Maybe you should go to the Middle East & live there for a while. The point was that muslims DO NOT understand a non-theocratic society such as we have in the USA & try to impose Sharia. Muslims are hypnotized into it from birth.

Seth says
M 2007-01-30 08:18:20 5871
I AM NOT AFRAID OF MUSLIMS. You, SIR, seem to be afraid of Americans. Maybe you should go to the Middle East & live there for a while. The point was that muslims DO NOT understand a non-theocratic society such as we have in the USA & try to impose Sharia. Muslims are hypnotized into it from birth.
Some Muslims, are taught that they should live by Sharia, but there is no evidance that there is a serious crusade to impose that law in the USA against non Muslims.  Sure you probably can find some crazy clerics who might espouse such a proposition. But then you can find some crazy cleric who will espouse any particular thing that you wish to fear.  We are all hypnotized from birth.  It's called growing up ... its called learning the ropes.  I am saying that Sharia does not have a chance in America to become dominant.  Muslims should be able to practice Sharia in our country as long as they do not infringe on others liberties. That is the way it is now and that is the way it will stay.  Fear of Muslims imposing Shaia in the USA is stupid. Criticizing Muslims for following their beliefs is just religious intolerance. You are the one who is afraid of Americans because you think our way of life is so weak that it cannot accomodate Islam within it.

Mark de LA says
seth 2007-01-30 09:24:47 5871
M 2007-01-30 09:12:14 5871
seth 2007-01-30 09:00:57 5871
M 2007-01-30 08:55:22 5871
I am NOT AFRAID (period). Get over it!
Then stop your fear mongering !

I do not monger fear - that's your bag!
Your statement above, " ... IT IS ALL ABOUT THE FEAR!", and your choice of cartoons not withstanding.
Permit me to clarify.  The Terrorist's stock & trade is FEAR! That was what the article was all about. The article talked about the Muslim's reaction to the cartoons of Mohamed & the riots in the streets intended to intimidate the West & how the West cowered in response. Many other examples were shown. I was really surprised that a prominent newspaper from Germany came from a unusual point of view.  Usually Europe is anti-US & dares not align with anything remotely on the same page with Israel.

Mark de LA says
Your artful paraphrasing notwithstanding, capitulate means "to surrender unconditionally or on stipulated terms".  That's not my way of doing things. Muslims started the war on 9-11, foggy memories also notwithstanding. 
If you start a war with me I will do my best to avoid it.  If you force me to fight I will do my absolute best to my dying breath to kill you as quickly as I can without niceties or Marquess_of_Queensberry_rules . I want my country to adopt the same measures. Where are our Churchill, Truman, MacArthur, Teddy Roosevelt when we need them?

Seth says
M 2007-01-30 10:43:13 5871
 The Terrorist's stock & trade is FEAR! That was what the article was all about. The article talked about the Muslim's reaction to the cartoons of Mohamed & the riots in the streets intended to intimidate the West & how the West cowered in response.
But there is nothing new in that knowledge.  The implied perspective of the article is that we should oppose that ... not capitulate ... why? ... because we fear they will succeed.   It is all summed up in their byline ...
The prevailing feeling among Muslims is that they are being abused by the West. What should we do about it? We might as well surrender. After all, we're already on our way. 
In other words we should fight the Muslims.

Mark de LA says
seth 2007-01-30 14:05:17 5871
Seems to me that "Muslims started the war on 9-11" is no justification for us to go on a holy war against all Muslims.  After all white boys are mowing down children in high schools all over our country, should we then go on a holy war against White Boys?  Once you grok that we are not in a war against Muslims, it might be easier for you to understand that the notion of "capitulation to Muslims" is not even on the table ... your Der Spiegel article not withstanding. 

Nobody here said anything about a holy war against ALL muslims. It just happens that the uggliest of them are still grabbing the headlines & those that really are peaceful rarely get any headlines.

Seth says
source: MR above
One assination does not terrorism make.
Actually i don't think that tracks ...
source: wikipedia - Definition of terrorism
Academic Consensus Definition: "Terrorism is an anxiety-inspiring method of repeated violent action, employed by (semi-) clandestine individual, group or state actors, for idiosyncratic, criminal or political reasons, whereby - in contrast to assassination - the direct targets of violence are not the main targets. The immediate human victims of violence are generally chosen randomly (targets of opportunity) or selectively (representative or symbolic targets) from a target population, and serve as message generators. Threat- and violence-based communication processes between terrorist (organization), (imperiled) victims, and main targets are used to manipulate the main target (audience(s)), turning it into a target of terror, a target of demands, or a target of attention, depending on whether intimidation, coercion, or propaganda is primarily sought" (Schmid, 1988)
...  note how Wikipedia has contrasts assassination and terrorism.  My fear, of course, and the reason for my comment is that this single act may inspire others.  But let us hope that is not the case.  I know you want to attribute some kind of liberal conspiracy to my intentions, but there is none --- just fear on my part.  The more the media ... and even bloggers ... cease to give lip service to Roeder's motives when talking about his crime, the less likely the terror will spread.  Think back on the coverage of the Oklahoma bombing - nobody in the M$M was going around giving lip service to Tim McVey's anti government crusade.  That is the way it should be now with  Tiller's murder.  Me thinks that is the way it should be on all acts of terror.   

Mark de LA says
seth 2009-06-07 22:11:58 5871
MR 2009-06-07 18:35:14 5871
seth 2009-06-07 15:56:40 5871
Looks like radical Islam is not the only kind of terrorism America has to worry about :(
I suspect this is just an ordinary murder.  It is definitely not the way to deal with abortionists. The guy may be crazy or be on a personal crusade of his own or be in a small conspiracy with a few others.  The left would love to label this guy a terrorist & all pro-lifers, but the real terrorists from the perspective of the unborn is the guy performing abortions in particular those called partial birth abortions at the last minute. Sorry, doesn't fly for me.
He labeled himself a terrorist,  ...
source: yahoo news
"I know there are many other similar events planned around the country as long as abortion remains legal," Roeder said. He would not elaborate.
...  though he didn't use the word, his tactics are the same.  I wouldn't glamorize the evil of his crime by mentioning it in the same breath as the motives of his victim.   That is to grant it justification.  That is like condemning a suicide bomber and then in the next sentence saying but the real criminals are in the IDf.   Good attitude ... see what it will bring.
~
I didn't do that - lies again on your part! BTW, what you accuse is very similar to what Obama did in his grand apology and tour in front of the Muslims recently.  One assination does not terrorism make. Trying to make it terrorism is a similar liberal filthy trick like Napolitano's calling returning GI's from the war zone potential terroists.

Mark de LA says
seth 2009-06-07 15:56:40 5871
Looks like radical Islam is not the only kind of terrorism America has to worry about :(
I suspect this is just an ordinary murder.  It is definitely not the way to deal with abortionists. The guy may be crazy or be on a personal crusade of his own or be in a small conspiracy with a few others.  The left would love to label this guy a terrorist & all pro-lifers, but the real terrorists from the perspective of the unborn is the guy performing abortions in particular those called partial birth abortions at the last minute. Sorry, doesn't fly for me.

Mark de LA says
seth 2009-06-08 10:22:28 5871 <snip>
 "Terrorism is an anxiety-inspiring method of repeated violent action, <snip>
As I said, one assassination (or one murder) doesn't do it. Indeed if your theory is correct the attempt by the M$M & liberals to elevate it to terrorism is what will inspire others to join the copycat club, much as others have because of the Columbine massacre by high schoolers to get their 15 minutes of fame. The best thing is to tone it all down & frame it as one lunatic not crank it up.  If you want to bash pro-lifers, like Bill Clinton tried to blame Rush & others who are right talkers with Oklahoma City, you are barking up the wrong tree.

Mark de LA says
seth 2009-06-08 10:55:46 5871
source: MR above
The best thing is to tone it all down & frame it as one lunatic not crank it up.
On that i agree.  I would also crank down the liberal conspiracy angle because that is total bs.
We'll know how much the liberal conspiracy angle is bs when we see how long the news front of the murder gets blamed on terrorism by M$M.  Like I said Bill Clinton failed to make a dent in right wing talk radio with the Oklahoma bombing.  Remember there is no more terrorism since Obama & Napolitano declared it all to be 'man made disasters".


Einaian says
 

Islamic State message to America: 'We will drown all of you in blood'...


See Also

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  4. Thought Radical Islam in the U.K. with 0 viewings related by tag "radical islam".
  5. Thought about: Al Qaeda No. 2 Calls for Muslims to Start Holy War with 0 viewings related by tag "the west".