Validity of a global Temperature

About: sciencedaily: researchers question validity of a 'global temperature'

Finally the hype catches up to common sense:
source: ... It is impossible to talk about a single temperature for something as complicated as the climate of Earth", ...
Furthermore, the climate is not governed by a single temperature. Rather, differences of temperatures drive the processes and create the storms, sea currents, thunder, etc. which make up the climate
... I couldn't resist this picture (for punctuation) from webshots: This one shows even more doom !


Tags

  1. global warming
  2. global horse shit
  3. temperature
  4. global temperature
  5. global skeptics

Comments


Seth says
No climate scientist is saying that there is a single temperature for the earth actually exists, that would be a reification fallacy.  The human, however, is regulated to stay at a single temperature, but nobody is saying that there is such a single temperature for the Earth.  However there is a message at the end  ...
source: adapted from a news release issued by University of Copenhagen
What Bjarne Andresen and his coworkers emphasize is that physical arguments are needed to decide whether one averaging method or another is needed to calculate an average which is relevant to describe the state of Earth.
... that is valid and i am sure that climate scientists are well aware of it.  But nowhere in this adaption of a news release is there any critique of what climate scientists are actually saying in their peer review articles.  Rather it should be taken as a critique of the way some laymen talk about the subject ... especially those laymen who ask where to stick the thermometer.

Mark de LA says
But, Seth, what is being hyped by Algore, scientists, the media & you is that the average temperature of the Earth is rising : hence the term GLOBAL WARMING
source: ... "A temperature can be defined only for a homogeneous system. Furthermore, the climate is not governed by a single temperature. Rather, differences of temperatures drive the processes and create the storms, sea currents, thunder, etc. which make up the climate". 
... attempts to quantify the term GLOBAL WARMING & the term itself are misleading. The Earth is & has been constantly changing along with the rest of the Universe. Notice my emphasis from the article above. That is what must be understood! That is what human beings must adapt to. Perhaps your scientists are trying to turn a local intensive property at some point on the Earth into an extensive property of the whole Earth - see the Wikipedia.

Seth says
M 2007-03-20 06:58:02 6453
 the average temperature of the Earth is rising
Yes it is.  The rising average temperature is an abstraction of measurements.   Assume for a moment that there was a trend of the globe to warm, (not a abstraction, but a reality), how would you express the measurement of that trend?

Mark de LA says
seth 2007-03-20 09:33:14 6453
M 2007-03-20 06:58:02 6453
 the average temperature of the Earth is rising
Yes it is.  The rising average temperature is an abstraction of measurements.   Assume for a moment that there was a trend of the globe to warm, (not a abstraction, but a reality), how would you express the measurement of that trend?
This is a paradox. The article is saying that a single temperature is really meaningless. What is needed is a dashboard concept. Your car has a simple dashboard. An F117 has a much more complex one. That for the Earth will be much more complex yet. All the parameters are not yet understood yet. A simple ON/OFF red warning light is ridiculous; especially when it could trigger trillions of $$$ of capital investment in the wrong things or presumably cause an Ice Age if wrong.   The I Ching is a master of changes on the scale of war, life & politics (& many esoteric things). I am not suggesting the same for the World Climate, but there are some clues as to complexity. Perhaps the will make one from his own ching.

Mark de LA says
seth 2007-03-20 12:40:05 6453
Yep something like a matrix is going to represent the climate far more accurately than a average temperature.  I am sure such a matrices exists in the climate scientists simulation programs.  But you can't use those matrices to talk about climate change with the general public.  
Maybe you can do something with pictures like animating a tetrak or other N-dimensional lattice with colors & sound. Star Trek was very clever with dashboard panels.  The younger generation is very savvy with that kind of thing. Actually, that would be pretty fun to do. Politicians are dumb however.

Mark de LA says


Mark de LA says
The second one does a little better job of addressing the notion, but misses the big picture. How does a single temperature for a huge planet which varies all over it's surface, atmosphere and within it's sea represent anything useful; especially considering that the span of time of the measurements uses very different measurement instruments (tree rings, ice cores, etc...). And, how does tell you useful information about the phenomena of the climate (& weather) which is more a function of pressure & differences in temperature?

Mark de LA says
seth 2007-03-26 09:38:48 6453
There are rebuttals to this paper here and here
Well, only one of your links (the first) works right now. It does not address the validity of the concept of a single temperature for the Earth as is the topic of this 6453. It is still lost in mathematics of statistical averages & conclusions derived from such. I don't like an average of any kind representing such a complex system as the Earth.  A single temperature for the human body works because the body seems to be engineered to have a constant temperature independent (almost) of the environment. The Earth has had alternating warming & cooling periods over the millenia - apparently not a constant like the human body. Maybe that's why the human body was engineered do have one!
  

Mark de LA says
Using a single temperature is a way to bamboozle the masses into political boondoggles because most of them (& the politicians they serve) can't think of more than one variable at a time (;-p)

Mark de LA says
seth 2007-03-26 11:08:49 6453
M 2007-03-26 10:17:38 6453
I don't like an average of any kind representing such a complex system as the Earth. 
Well, like it or not, it is useful.  Break it down to smaller regions.  Is is not useful to know that the average temperature in the Bahamas is hotter than in Colorado?   This bears on the dispute as explained here ...
source: real climate
The funny thing then is that the concept of regional mean temperature would also not be meaningful according to Essex et al. And one may also wonder if the problem of computing a mean temperature is meaningful in time, such as the summer-mean temperature or winter-mean temperature?
Btw, both of the rebuttal links i provided above are correct and work now ... your problem may have been transitory.
Nothing you have said explains anything. Your quotes have not answered the questions I posed.  I suppose if you break down your region small enough, like say Denver, then you know what you have; my going outside can do that.  OTOH, one would not want to base political & economic decisions for the whole country based on the temperature in Denver; nor the whole World based on the NorthWest United States.


See Also

  1. Thought Global Cooling by 2020 ? with 286 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  2. Thought So which is it? with 123 viewings related by tag "globalwarming".
  3. Thought Fo Hammer report!!!! Catagory 5! with 83 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  4. Thought Why we are advancing Global Warming as a global consciousness with 63 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  5. Thought Fake Science with 47 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  6. Thought Global Groundhog Day! with 21 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  7. Thought Man Prepares for... with 17 viewings related by tag "global skeptics".
  8. Thought Oreskes vs Peiser with 16 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  9. Thought Chicken Little with 11 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  10. Thought 9 years left & counting .... with 8 viewings related by tag "globalwarming".
  11. Thought Your TAX $$ at Waste with 7 viewings related by tag "global skeptics".
  12. Thought about: RealClimate with 6 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  13. Thought Mars seems to be affected by Global Warming with 6 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  14. Thought Another Global Warming Countdown Clock with 6 viewings related by tag "globalwarming".
  15. Thought Global Bullshit with 6 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  16. Thought about: How to Talk to a Sceptic about Global Warming with 6 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  17. Thought Your government wasting time ... with 5 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  18. Thought Doomsday with 5 viewings related by tag "global skeptics".
  19. Thought The Prayer for the New Religion with 4 viewings related by tag "global skeptics".
  20. Thought A complete list of things caused by global warming with 4 viewings related by tag "global skeptics".
  21. Thought Try an experiment - room2 with 4 viewings related by tag "globalwarming".
  22. Thought Cap & Trade = Cap & Spend with 3 viewings related by tag "global skeptics".
  23. Thought Inconvenient Lies of the Hollywood Left with 3 viewings related by tag "global skeptics".
  24. Thought Boondoggles for the Global Hand-job of Guilt with 3 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  25. Thought A Libertarian's view of An Inconvenient Truth with 3 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  26. Thought The Big Stories and views that don't make major network news ... with 3 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  27. Thought Belief vs Bullshit & #BullGas with 3 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  28. Thought Global Surprise? with 3 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  29. Thought A Study of Global Warming: Jump List of References with 3 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  30. Thought Global Heretics with 3 viewings related by tag "global skeptics".
  31. Thought about: Brainwashing 1A - Gore et. al. - comment 15617 with 2 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  32. Thought NOAA - Global Warming & Many Other Subjects with 2 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  33. Thought ICECAP with 1 viewings related by tag "global skeptics".
  34. Thought Michael Crichton - State of Fear with 1 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  35. Thought about: Coolest December-February Since 2001 for U.S., Globe with 1 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  36. Thought The Dead Bodies of Global Warming Begin to Stink! with 1 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  37. Thought Global Cooling with 1 viewings related by tag "global skeptics".
  38. Thought Global Irony with 1 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  39. Thought about: Senate Speech: A Challenge To Journalists Who Cover Global Warming, James Inhofe (R-Okla) with 1 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  40. Thought News Flash --- New Investment Opportunities Galore with 0 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  41. Thought WFB on Naturalism - The Second Inquisition ! with 0 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  42. Thought Denise and i went to the movies ... with 0 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  43. Thought ENCYCLICAL LETTER OF THE HOLY FATHER FRANCIS ON CARE FOR OUR COMMON HOME with 0 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  44. Thought Environ-mentalism - Prius Envy with 0 viewings related by tag "global horse shit".
  45. Thought about: Dangerous human-made interference with climate: NASA Institute for Space Studies publication with 0 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  46. Thought Proposition: Rising CO2 in Earth's athmosphere is causing global warming. with 0 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  47. Thought about: Global Warming's Real Inconvenient Truth with 0 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  48. Thought Environmentals - Go Thou & do Likewise - Please! with 0 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  49. Thought about: Enzymes feasting on C02 will combat global warming with 0 viewings related by tag "global warming".
  50. Thought Science vs Mysticism with 0 viewings related by tag "global warming".