Usually the Enemy Declares Victory First

Benedict Reid declares the War is lost before the enemy suffers victory. Reid, apparently suffering from liberal rectal-brain implosion disease (RBID) was apparently off his meds the other day. Harry in a Hurry to own defeat forgot to notify our troops in Iraq about their apparent demise.
See the rest of the cartoons later. 

Tags

  1. reid
  2. brain rectum implosion
  3. iraq
  4. congress
  5. hr 1591
  6. supplemental funding
  7. iraq surrender
  8. iraq war diagram

Comments


Mark de LA says


Mark de LA says


Seth says
source: IraqSlagger
Just hours after President Bush reiterated that he would "strongly reject" any attempt to impose a schedule for withdrawal from Iraq, Senate Majority leader Harry Reid said in a speech that within days Congress will pass legislation doing just that.

According to Reid, the proposed bill "immediately transitions the U.S. mission away from policing a civil war

Mark de LA says
For those of you who took civics in public high school - a law doesn's pass until the president signs or vetoes it. Get over it! There are three branches of the US government.  The margin of Democrats over Republicans in the Senate is one vote.  One senator switching sides & the Republicans own the Senate - hardly a mandate except in the minds liberals.

Seth says
M 2007-04-23 17:16:30 6969
If congress passes it Bush will veto it & then the fight begins in earnest.
Me thinks it has already passed ... just needs reconciling the House to the Senate versions.

This war is going to end ... question now is how bad it will end.  Bush should have known that before he started the surge, i mean he did wait till after the elections to finalize it.  I know that you have agued that it was best for our nation for everybody to have gotten behind the commander and chief in his last effort to snatch victory from disaster ... and even i had agreed with you.  Problem is that even a child could have predicted that the democrats would do everything in their power to obstruct the disaster that this war has become ... after all that is what the American people sent them to Washington to do.  While i hail the brave folk, both Iraqi and American, who have tried to make Bush's vision of a glowing Iraqi nation happen,it is with sadness that i can no longer believe in it.  In the long run Americans can do nothing to build such a democracy for other people in a foreign land.  That is for the people in that land to do ... and only they can do it for themselves.  It is time that Americans leave the theater and leave the dama to the actors who live on the stage.

Mark de LA says
If congress passes it Bush will veto it & then the fight begins in earnest.

Seth says
M 2007-04-24 05:42:38 6969
The margin of Democrats over Republicans in the Senate is one vote.  One senator switching sides & the Republicans own the Senate ...
Your not counting the 30 Republicans who are against the conduct of the war and are voting with the Democrats.

Mark de LA says
A blogger from over there in Iraq - he probably needs more server power but the in theatre view is a nightmare for some & a refreshingly different point of view for others. Respect the difference or your comments will be deleted.
 

Seth says
M 2007-04-24 06:20:20 6969
A blogger from over there in Iraq -
Good find ... i have a whole bookmark folder of these ... perhaps sometime i will publish it ... especially of interest are the actual Iraqi bloggers.

Mark de LA says
seth 2007-04-24 07:31:45 6969
M 2007-04-24 05:42:38 6969
The margin of Democrats over Republicans in the Senate is one vote.  One senator switching sides & the Republicans own the Senate ...
Your not counting the 30 Republicans who are against the conduct of the war and are voting with the Democrats.
We'll see how they stand when their names are on the line after the veto. Are you counting the House there, booby? Remember from your public school civics there are two houses of the U.S. Congress. The House has a wider margin of democrats, the Senate doesn't.  Veto overide has to be 66.66% in both houses.  With the help of moveon.org, Soros, & MediaMatters.org you might have a chance. 
Too bad it takes a Multi-billionaire who hates America for the Demos to pass a controversial bill.


Seth says
M 2007-04-24 08:47:33 6969
Are you counting the House there, booby?
No ... go look up the how many Republicans voted with Democrats in the Senate for this bill.

The only question remaining is whether Democrats are going to be able to maintain a hard line and not fund the surge without some criteria for ending the war.  Being able to predict that would show that we understand the political situation in Washington.  Most talking heads seem to think that after the veto Democrats will just cave in and send the president a "clean" bill of funding without the restrictions.  I'm not so sure. 

Mark de LA says
So where is your evidence on the 30 Republican lackeys?

Seth says
M 2007-04-24 14:30:49 6969
The point is unless you get 2/3 of the 100 (67) senators you don't have a veto-proof bill. Bush will veto it.
Yep that is common knowledge now.

Mark de LA says
seth 2007-04-24 11:34:00 6969
seth 2007-04-24 09:59:35 6969
M 2007-04-24 09:46:19 6969
So where is your evidence on the 30 Republican lackeys?
I'll get back to you on that.
Actually only 3 republican Senitors crossed over: Smith (R-OR), Hagel (R-NE), Hagel (R-NE) ... the vote was  51 to 47 with 2 abstains.  Point is that it was the republican crossovers that passed it, not the very slim democratic majority.
had to count Hagel 2X
The point is unless you get 2/3 of the 100 (67) senators you don't have a veto-proof bill. Bush will veto it.

Mark de LA says


Seth says
M 2007-04-25 15:26:12 6969
seth 2007-04-25 12:50:53 6969
-snip-.  The half truth that i refered to was that (1) withdrawing from Iraq is surrendering.  A better truth is (2) that we would be stopping our occupation of the country.  Taken alone without any judgement whatsoever (2) is true ... do you not agree?  (1) is a way to spin that cessation of occupation so as to paint democrats as the boogy men. 
We are technically not occupying the country.  The government has not told us to leave. If they did, Bush would be obliged to leave. So.....none of what you say has truth in it!
Again with the semantics ... but can you see the real point ... whether you agree with it or not?  We instigated the fact that we are in that land.  This was the first time, that i know of, where America invaded a country with no provocation from that country.  Sorry i cannot swallow that leaving that country now is to be seen as a surrender ... that is just too much of a stretch. 

Originally our invasion was to prevent a clear and present danger of WMD ... that ended up being unfounded ... then the reasons changed to supporting a government that can help us fight Al-Qaida ... but there was no Al-Qaida there before we came.  Leaving Iraq is not a surrender, though it will be claimed as such by Al-Qaida ... it is America comming to its senses and reversing a disasterous foreign adventurism.  After we leave Iraq (and we will) perhaps we can focus on protecting our legitimite security issues ... read this article "Al Qaeda is a more dangerous enemy today than it has ever been before" ... that is the legitimate threat to our way of life that needs to be addressed ... yet that is the very threat that is not being addressed because all of our resources are tied up in supporting the dream of democracy in Baghdad. 

Seth says
M 2007-04-25 10:57:51 6969
seth 2007-04-25 10:48:50 6969
There is a grand distinction between surrender and stopping agressionIf i start hitting you and then stop hitting you, i am not surrendering.  The cartoon above is actually funny in the way it hits a point squre on  ... but it masks a lie ... perputuating that lie is propoganda .. it is a meme that has infected America since 9-11.  It is time that we got well !
Liberal obfuscation, nothing more!
But that goes nowhere except perhaps into RWG.  What might be more interesting would be to understand the distinction ... then understand why it applies (or not) in this case.


Mark de LA says
seth 2007-04-25 12:50:53 6969
-snip-.  The half truth that i refered to was that (1) withdrawing from Iraq is surrendering.  A better truth is (2) that we would be stopping our occupation of the country.  Taken alone without any judgement whatsoever (2) is true ... do you not agree?  (1) is a way to spin that cessation of occupation so as to paint democrats as the boogy men. 
We are technically not occupying the country.  The government has not told us to leave. If they did, Bush would be obliged to leave. So.....none of what you say has truth in it!

Seth says
M 2007-04-25 12:39:33 6969
seth 2007-04-25 12:37:34 6969
M 2007-04-25 12:33:52 6969

source: ... ... but it masks a lie ... perputuating that lie is propoganda .. it is a meme that has infected America since 9-11.
...I don't accept your premise.  Get well some from your RBID.  Your favorite phrase seems to be calling someone or somebody a liar.  I think that is possibly one of the symptoms of RBID.  Maybe you should get something scoped out there.

don't call it a "lie" if you hava a problem with that word... call it a "half truth" or an "untruth" ... focusing on that quibble with my words has still and yet prevented you from engaging the actual point.

I still don't accept your premise no matter what weasel word you choose.
I have no idea what presis you are referring to.  The half truth that i refered to was that (1) withdrawing from Iraq is surrendering.  A better truth is (2) that we would be stopping our occupation of the country.  Taken alone without any judgement whatsoever (2) is true ... do you not agree?  (1) is a way to spin that cessation of occupation so as to paint democrats as the boogy men. 

Mark de LA says
seth 2007-04-25 12:37:34 6969
M 2007-04-25 12:33:52 6969

source: ... ... but it masks a lie ... perputuating that lie is propoganda .. it is a meme that has infected America since 9-11.
...I don't accept your premise.  Get well some from your RBID.  Your favorite phrase seems to be calling someone or somebody a liar.  I think that is possibly one of the symptoms of RBID.  Maybe you should get something scoped out there.

don't call it a "lie" if you hava a problem with that word... call it a "half truth" or an "untruth" ... focusing on that quibble with my words has still and yet prevented you from engaging the actual point.

I still don't accept your premise no matter what weasel word you choose.

Mark de LA says
Your progaganda is getting pretty good. Why not get a PR job with Al Queda.

Seth says
M 2007-04-25 16:55:19 6969
Your progaganda is getting pretty good. Why not get a PR job with Al Queda.
Bruce Riedel of the Brookings Institution, who i quoted above, is hardly a Al Queda propogandist;  and to predict what Al Queda will say on should look at what orgainizations like The Popular Front for the Iraqi Resistance are actually saying.  You can call that propoganda, but i will call it being aware of the facts rather than talking off the top of my head. 

Mark de LA says
Saddam set the precedent for invading another soverign country prior to the first gulf war when he went into Kuwait.  He had to be stopped.  Too bad Bush-I wrenched defeat in the midst of victory.  Saddam was a mass murderer. There were other issues besides the WMD which were there.  Saddam failed to comply with 17 UN resolutions & to his demise pretended to have WMD.  That the war is still going on is the fault of insurgents, not the US - get over it!  It isn't some internal popular movement that is causing the carnage.  It is external countries like Syria & mostly Iran that are delivering weapons, training insurgents & pushing Iraqis into a civil war that make the war last.  How about an occasional unkind word for those people from you liberals. The Iraqi people, left to their own devices, free of insurgency would have long ago come to peace as a single country without the US-left framing the war as lost; thus giving the remnants of Al Queda & the other insurgents from Iran the hope to frame the situation as a defeat to the US & the West.  Harry Reid & the Democrat Parth has done their bidding, consciously or not.  There is no proof that Al Queda is stronger than before; Bruce Riedel's flat out assertions notwithstanding.   Were it not the internal politics of Packistan the insurgents & Al Queda would have been wiped out long ago.
This too shall pass! 

Mark de LA says
... AKA Harry Reid's leadership phenomena, AKA Harry Reid thoughts, AKA Harry Reid's plan for the future of America, ... AKA....


Mark de LA says
 Apparently a lot of cartoonists agree with the surrender theme.

Mark de LA says
For those who took public high school civics :
  • the Senate & the house have to conference to agree on one bill to send to the president who will certainly veto any attempt to micro-manage the military.
  • This country's government is not a democracy, but a democratic-republic.  That form was chosen by the founders to avoid the tyranny of the majority like 2 wolves & a sheep trying to vote on what's for dinner. It takes the equal representatives in the senate and the proportional representatives of the people in the house to make a law for the president to sign. 
  • When the veto is attached to the bill we will then see if there is really majority of the people who want defeat instead of victory .  My spies tell me that the only reason some people voted for the current bills is to get to the veto phase quicker!
  • ....The 2008 election notwithstanding

Mark de LA says
seth 2007-04-26 12:03:46 6969
 So both Bush and the enemy knows there is a 6 megaton elephant coming on the battlefield named The American People.  I suspect that both Bush and the enemy will attempt to persuade that elephant how to move.
It's more like the Democrat majority is siding with the enemy to wrestle defeat from the jaws of victory in some delusional mistake that Americans want it! 


Seth says
Update 4/26/2007 The Senate passed the supplemental with the withdrawal dates, 51-46, largely along party lines.  Apparently another senator abstained or was out campaigning ... the prior vote was 51-47. Now the bill goes to the president's desk for the drama of the veto. For me the only interesting question remaining is what will be the substance of the final compromise and  when will it be signed?

The US congress is just a proxy for us, the American people.  This war is being waged on our behalf.  Like it or not, we are a integral force in the balance of power on the battle field.  If we withdraw our support, and the vast majority of us have, then inevitably America must withdraw. That is how democracy is supposed to work, and that is how it worked in Viet Nam.  We can laugh and jeer at the partisan machinations in Washington all we want ... they are certainly an imperfect representation of our will ... but to understand the changing situation in Iraq, the hearts and minds of us, the American people, must be taken into consideration.  So both Bush and the enemy knows there is a 6 megaton elephant coming on the battlefield named The American People.  I suspect that both Bush and the enemy will attempt to persuade that elephant how to move.

Seth says
M 2007-04-26 12:19:56 6969
  • the Senate & the house have to conference to agree on one bill to send to the president who will certainly veto any attempt to micro-manage the military.
your behind, that has already happened.

Mark de LA says
OOPS!
OTOH, the for/against margins house:218/208 & senate:51/46 is a margin of 15 people out of 523 that voted (2.8%) ; it being apparent that nothing overwhelming happened.

Seth says
M 2007-04-26 12:24:02 6969
seth 2007-04-26 12:03:46 6969
 So both Bush and the enemy knows there is a 6 megaton elephant coming on the battlefield named The American People.  I suspect that both Bush and the enemy will attempt to persuade that elephant how to move.
It's more like the Democrat majority is siding with the enemy to wrestle defeat from the jaws of victory in some delusional mistake that Americans want it! 

In the spirit of 6831 there may be a better truth.  Me thinks the power vectors actually work in more of a 3 dimensional fashion ... like this diagram.  Eventually there will be a resolution of the Al-Qaeda in Iraq vs Shea fight ... one faction will take over the country ... probably the Shea;  but the US military is opposing that resolution.   The American people are weeking that opposition.  There is no way that they are "siding with the enemy" ... that is just rwg propoganda and is just getting in the way of seeing a solution.

Seth says
You can zoom to see my power diagram better here.

Mark de LA says
I don't see that this is really in the spirit of 6831 at all, although I will grant that your heart may be in the right place.  Your diagram only confuses while showing not much.  Maybe you can tease out a sentence or two to say in English what you think your diagram is saying. What word were you thinking about when the word "weeking" showed up?


Mark de LA says
How appropriate this morning after the debate (Speaking out of both sides of their mouths):
 see 7006 & 7009 !

Mark de LA says
seth 2007-04-27 07:59:55 6969
Well can the giant mind of M can tell us how perpetuating the institutionalization of  violence between Persians and Arabs in Mesopotamia has anything whatsoever to do with being strong against terrorist strikes in America?
Ask the donkey in the cartoon above?

Seth says
M 2007-04-27 08:07:41 6969
seth 2007-04-27 07:59:55 6969
Well can the giant mind of M can tell us how perpetuating the institutionalization of  violence between Persians and Arabs in Mesopotamia has anything whatsoever to do with being strong against terrorist strikes in America?
Ask the donkey in the cartoon above?
Shucks, i was anticipating an intelligent response .

Mark de LA says
seth 2007-04-27 08:18:11 6969
M 2007-04-27 08:07:41 6969
seth 2007-04-27 07:59:55 6969
Well can the giant mind of M can tell us how perpetuating the institutionalization of  violence between Persians and Arabs in Mesopotamia has anything whatsoever to do with being strong against terrorist strikes in America?
Ask the donkey in the cartoon above?
Shucks, i was anticipating an intelligent response .
Then ask an intelligent question.  Mesopotamia hasn't been an individuality for a very long time.

Mark de LA says
perhaps the funniest of all - certainly points up something grotesque


Mark de LA says
Surrender: what the Democrat party does best!


Mark de LA says
& maybe finally ....


Mark de LA says
You see folks even the great Seth who is anti-war can't keep himself out of the RWG which I might as well call the Right War Game for his benefit! His over-sized cartoons aren't appreciated here.  It is those very instincts & programming of the brain that makes wars in the beginning. Obviously he is not immune from what I call that the Rectal-Brain-Implosion Disease or RBID!  It is a disease that makes people think that everyone else should stop doing something (like fighting) while they continue as before without consequences.  It is another liberal disease of the "better than thou" generation. 


Mark de LA says
seth 2007-04-28 11:13:05 6969
Apparently you want to laughf out of only one side of your RWG mouth.
I do laugh out of both sides, & even out of my ass!  In fact I laughed so hard at this one that I laughed my ass off!


Seth says
M 2007-04-28 11:43:37 6969
seth 2007-04-28 11:13:05 6969
Apparently you want to laughf out of only one side of your RWG mouth.
I do laugh out of both sides, & even out of my ass!  In fact I laughed so hard at this one that I laughed my ass off!
Good for you ... prolly needed to loose some weight there ... but did you laugh at any of the cartoons that i posted?

Mark de LA says
Not a suprise - so why were they wasting our time & money? - '08 election

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