Wright & Moore Wrong

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Mark de LA says

Obama awakes!

Mark de LA says

More information to digest in this matter here => *** The associations amongst the players in this political theatre are not so casual as Obama would like his disciples to believe! BTW, truth is not a smear!

======> ostrich looking for a place to bury it's head

<=============

Mark de LA says

seth 2008-06-02 00:16:23 9977

source: M above
truth is not a smear

True enough but there is no truth in the proposition that what Pfleger said reflects on Obama's character of ability to lead the country.

...Said like a true disciple.

Seth says

M 2008-05-30 10:20:26 9977

seth 2008-05-30 10:08:40 9977

source: M above
"It must be in the holy water Yet another preacher from that church shouts racism from the pulpit: At Obama

Mark de LA says

M 2008-05-30 06:45:08 9977

It must be in the holy water

Yet another preacher from that church shouts racism from the pulpit: At Obama

Mark de LA says

seth 2008-05-30 10:08:40 9977

source: M above
"It must be in the holy water Yet another preacher from that church shouts racism from the pulpit: At Obama

Mark de LA says

source: ... "The black theologian must reject any conception of God which stifles black self-determination by picturing God as a God of all peoples. Either God is identified with the oppressed to the point that their experience becomes God's experience, or God is a God of racism...The blackness of God means that God has made the oppressed condition God's own condition. This is the essence of the Biblical revelation. By electing Israelite slaves as the people of God and by becoming the Oppressed One in Jesus Christ, the human race is made to understand that God is known where human beings experience humiliation and suffering...Liberation is not an afterthought, but the very essence of divine activity."

... from the Wikipedia on Black Liberation Theology. It sounds more like the Black Muslims & Black Panthers of the 60's & 70's - more akin to Louis Farrakhan black separatism than Jesus Christ. By my 714 this is more an activist organization than a church & is truly racist. Rather than the church listening to Jesus Christ it seems like the church is telling Jesus Christ what he must do to gain their allegiance. The question I ask of all religions is do they hold to the Golden Rule - if so I am with them; if not then they are aliens.

Seth says

M 2008-05-30 13:16:18 9977

It is hard for me to get what came out of your mouth (bolded above) from the passage of the Wikipedia article from which you quoted. Black Muslims and Panthers and Louis Farrakhan are certainly not Christian ... nor is there any part of "black separatism" in black liberation theology.

Btw, Michael Pfleger is a Catholic for an entirely different church - hense black liberation theology should not even come up here. Also the notion that this reflects on Obama's character is even more tenuous. That Obama could he have predicted that an associate in his neighborhood in Chicago would say stupid things in a church over a decade later is absolutely ludicrous. I say investigate Pfleger. Find out why he really made that specticle last Sunday. What was his actual motive? Or are we to conclude that he is just a political idiot?

Mark de LA says

Did you read the entire article in Wikipedia? Did you look into the references. For 1 thing they cite Malcom X as one of their theologists. BTW, nothing came out of my mouth - it all came out of my typing fingers!

If you don't get black separatism out of Elija Mohammed & Farrakhan then you probably are 4 years old or have your head up your ass! He who doesn't have the ears to hear will never hear the message. I have no idea why Pfleger said what he said except that he must have known that the audience was receptive (they clapped for it!).

Seth says

M 2008-05-30 16:18:23 9977

Nope didnt need to read the whole Wikipedia since i had already studied black liberation theology and know that is has scarse little to do with Elija Mohammed and Malcom X who, no shit shurlock are separatist and Muslims not Christians. You are suffering from a bad case of lumpism.

Mark de LA says

Well I can't take your word for any of it. Since you refuse to read the content provided in the links & don't testify first hand. Elijah Mohamed is on the cover of the Church publication. Farrakhan spoke at the church & recently lots of racist comments are coming out of the mouths of preachers who preach there on invitation or otherwise. You would probably have to have a flaming bag of dog shit on your own front porch before you would smell the stink. The very identifier black liberation theology is racist! The idea of white oppression of blacks is racist & tribal! These preachers perpetuate these notions for the power it gives them while liberating nobody. I hear no Golden Rule in any of it.

Mark de LA says

Mark de LA says

Well, O finally resigned from Trinity Church. Blamed it mostly on the media trying to get the facts about this radical church. My take is that it was a succesful speech - it may do what he wants. The word resigned is strange. I have been to several Christian churches & never had to resign to not go nor did I have to apply for membership in order to go. Nobody asked about that word in the press conference. I am sure that the word was simply engineered to sever his political fate from his church. O blamed the timing on a leak from CNN. HA! He again missed several golden opportunities to instantiate 714 which I am fairly sure he does not believe in although he did express support for the Golden Rule!

Questions remain about how much racism he absorbed in the last 20 years while he was a member of the church & how much remains hidden for the election. Another question left unasked is why religion is in politics (or politics is in a church) at all, especially from a church that enjoys tax exempt status.

Anyway there are many more goodies to worry about like 10209 & how he & the Democrat party would ruin healthcare & ruin the economy with the carbon credit boondoggle.

Seth says

source: M above
The word resigned is strange. I have been to several Christian churches & never had to resign to not go nor did I have to apply for membership in order to go. Nobody asked about that word in the press conference. I am sure that the word was simply engineered to sever his political fate from his church.

Nobody asked because of the it is common knowledge amoung dedicated church goers. It signals the end of the tithe to that church.

source: M above
Questions remain about how much racism he absorbed in the last 20 years while he was a member of the church

Anybody who has watched him in public life already has the answer; but those partisans who's job is to smear the man will keep asking the question none the less.

Seth says

M 2008-06-02 11:07:43 9977

seth 2008-06-02 10:12:56 9977

M 2008-06-02 09:36:26 9977

Basically, I didn't drink the Kool-Aid, thank God!

If O can't determine or won't determine the character of those he puts onto his staff or ones he chooses as friends & associates, what can we expect of him in appointments to his cabinet & the Supreme Court? To pretend that he doesn't or didn't know what Wright et al goes a long way toward viewing him as stupid at best & a liar at the worse. I just can't buy it - won't drink the KoolAid!

Well you say the damdest things, so am i to be held responsible for them just because we have a long long history of association? Visa versa, are you to be held responsible for everything i say because you have been associated with me? No i don't think so. Barack took a job on the south side of Chicago during a time where all kinds of influences were working in that community. That he had to associate with the people working there in that community does not detract from his character nor does it cast any doubts that he can do a fine job as our president.

You & I have relationships which, fortunately, exceeds politics & religion. We are also related by DNA & so could not sever that relationship even if we wanted to. Obama persisted in a 20 year relationship which was by choice. He threw it under the bus when it became politically inconvenient (before, it was helpful despite his acting indignant over the question). If he were to articulate 714 & repudiate black liberation theology then I could see some character worthiness. His explanation is thin- blaming it on the media bugging his congregation. Seems as if when the media does it's job & finally investigates a candidate it's politically incorrect. It seems now that it is PC to mention his race, religion, wife, middle name, parents, some crooked funding, terrorist associates and a host of other things. His other associations are equally strange. He can't just kick them all to the past & pretend that nothing rubbed off on him. That is what every candidate caught in the headlights would like to do. Remember Clinton when the impeachment first surfaced? Throwing his church of 20 years under the bus also speaks to his character. Real leadership is in 714 - he could have preached it to his congregation (in his own silver tongued vocabulary)- see if you can pass it along to him!

I'm not talking about "severing relations" ... i'm talking about the conditions under which one person is to be held accountable for another person's actions just because they are associated with them. I made the point that because Obama accepted a job in the south side of chicago during the 80's, that he was obligated to associate with the forces who were active in that neighborhood at that time. He setteled down there, lived there, and chose a church there. That doesn't mean that he is forever responsible for the actions of other people from that community. Nor does it mean that he himself ascribes to all of the attitudes of people he had to work with. In fact he has made his attitudes quite clear and those attitudes totally conflict with the Wrights and the Pflegers.

Mark de LA says

seth 2008-06-02 10:12:56 9977

M 2008-06-02 09:36:26 9977

Basically, I didn't drink the Kool-Aid, thank God!

Mark de LA says

source: ... However he may seek to deny it, all evidence points to the fact that, from his position as board chair of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge, Barack Obama knowingly and persistently funded an educational project that shared the extremist and anti-American philosophy of Jeremiah Wright. The Wright affair was no fluke.....

... & ...

source: ...

After expressing disappointment with apolitical black churches focused only on traditional community services, Obama goes on to point in a more activist direction:

Over the past few years, however, more and more young and forward-thinking pastors have begun to look at community organizations such as the Developing Communities Project in the far south side [where Obama himself worked, and first encountered Pfleger, SK]...as a powerful tool for living the social gospel, one which can educate and empower entire congregations and not just serve as a platform for a few prophetic leaders. Should a mere 50 prominent black churches, out of thousands that exist in cities like Chicago, decide to collaborate with a trained and organized staff, enormous positive changes could be wrought....

Give me 50 Pflegers or 50 Wrights, Obama is saying, tie them to a network of grassroots activists like my companions from Acorn, and we can revolutionize urban politics.

...Stanley Kurtz does a nice job of researching BHO's connections & early community organizing which uncovers that he knew what Wright was all about & how he supported that radical point of view. READ IT (if you dare)! It's worth at least one question in the final debate. The point is not a racist one as much as it teases out BHO's character & opportunism & lack of truth in exposing his connections.

Mark de LA says

seth 2009-06-12 09:04:23 9977

MR 2009-06-12 08:57:33 9977

seth 2009-06-12 08:33:35 9977

MR 2009-06-12 06:44:11 9977

source: ...

Twitter of the Day

Jake Tapper tweets:

statement of fact: in the last few days both James von Brunn* and Rev Wright have claimed POTUS is controlled by Jews.

Of course, the president only considered one of them like a father until about a year ago.

...* accused of Holocaust Museum murder

what is this ... gilt by third party association to similar paranoia?

Here is another conjecture from Bozo ... everyone in the world is associated to every other person in the world by 2 degrees of separation based upon fear of similar things.

More like both of them hate Jews. Your conjecture disintegrates when you consider that not all people fear the same things. It is a pointless non-observation.

Of course mine was a pointless non-observation ... just like Tapper's twit. But as to your correction ... is not hate usually based on fear?

Hate & fear are two different things. Do the Muslims fear the Jews in Israei? Has that been a problem for millenia? The Jews are a much smaller force than the Arabs & Muslims. They are both negative emotions, one of which triggers the fight or flight response. The other is the opposite of Love the former being a somewhat repulsive (versus attractive) stimulus. I don't think translating your politics from one paradigm to the other serves much of a purpose, for me anyway.

Seth says

MR 2009-06-12 10:49:42 9977

shit-assed person: ...
Hate is an emotion ... it's not a meme. So is fear. Hate mongering, now that could be a meme ... hate mongering and fear mongering is pretty much the same thing ... only difference i can see right away is degree.

...

Wikipedia: ... A meme (pronounced /miːm/ - rhyming with "cream"[1]), a postulated unit or element of cultural ideas, symbols or practices, gets transmitted from one mind to another through speech, gestures, rituals, or other imitable phenomena. (The etymology of the term relates to the Greek word mimema for "something imitated".)[2] Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes, in that they self-replicate and respond to selective pressures.[3] Memeticists have not definitively empirically proven the existence of discrete memes or their proposed mechanism �" they do not form part of the consensus of mainstream social sciences.

... memes & hate are spread by speech, gestures etc. Hate has all the characteristics of a meme.

Well i have no trouble with your formulation, even though I am accustomed to distinguishing between internal mental states, like hate, and external behavior and events, like speech. But is it not just a semantic distinction and not one of necessity?

An interesting aside is that the external event of you changing the reference to me above prolly gave you an internal state of mirth, but it gave me and internal state of disgust. Proving, i suppose, that hate memes are relative to the observer.

Mark de LA says

seth 2009-06-12 09:49:27 9977

source: MR above
Hate & fear are two different things. Do the Muslims fear the Jews in Israei? Has that been a problem for millenia? The Jews are a much smaller force than the Arabs & Muslims. They are both negative emotions, one of which triggers the fight or flight response. The other is the opposite of Love the former being a somewhat repulsive (versus attractive) stimulus. I don't think translating your politics from one paradigm to the other serves much of a purpose, for me anyway.

That hate can be distinguished from fear is a platitude. Yes, Muslims fear Jews in Israel - so do Jews fear Muslims - that fear spawning hate has been the problem for a millennium. My point is that hate is strongly correlated with fear. You could say that fear is the motivator and hate is the result ... something like that. Provide me an example of where one people hates another people where there is not some kind fear involved. To go to war is is necessary for a government to whip there citizens up by installing fear of the enemy ... that fear then progresses to hate. And i agree that Love is a good choice for the opposite of that process. But that leads to the question: if fear causes hate ... what causes love? Tolerance, huh?

...Correlation does not necessarily prove connection - any statistician can tell you that. Hate can be rational or not. Fear can be rational or not. They have some similar properties. Some kind of missplaced moral equivalence of the two is what is behind designating "hate crimes". There are even movements now in government trying to assign "hate crimes" to Christians who believe & preach that the bible says homosexuality is a sin. Personally, I think that Christians have better things to worry about. OTOH, any attempt to progress to "FEAR crimes" would be foolish, eh?

Seth says

MR 2009-06-12 09:33:20 9977

seth 2009-06-12 09:01:06 9977

Here's my paranoia: I'm more scared by extreme loonery like this and this, than i am of Islamic extremism ... especially since the former is being fuled by local media like WND, and Foxnews, whereas the latter is mostly written in foreign script. Too bad the DHS didn't use the term "extreme loonery" to warn the country rather than the partisan sounding "right wing extremism".

Yours is a tasty morsel of something

Hmmm.... I wonder what that could be?

(enjoy the sprinkles)

That's more like an illustration of disgust ... below is one for fear hate. Thanks to ThisWeek

Mark de LA says

seth 2009-06-12 09:01:06 9977

Yours is a tasty morsel of something

Hmmm.... I wonder what that could be?

(enjoy the sprinkles)

Mark de LA says

...

Wikipedia: ... A meme (pronounced /miːm/ - rhyming with "cream"[1]), a postulated unit or element of cultural ideas, symbols or practices, gets transmitted from one mind to another through speech, gestures, rituals, or other imitable phenomena. (The etymology of the term relates to the Greek word mimema for "something imitated".)[2] Supporters of the concept regard memes as cultural analogues to genes, in that they self-replicate and respond to selective pressures.[3] Memeticists have not definitively empirically proven the existence of discrete memes or their proposed mechanism — they do not form part of the consensus of mainstream social sciences.

... memes & hate are spread by speech, gestures etc. Hate has all the characteristics of a meme.

Mark de LA says

seth 2009-06-12 10:13:46 9977

MR 2009-06-12 10:00:07 9977

seth 2009-06-12 09:49:27 9977

Well yes i agree ... "fear crimes" would be foolish. I would say that fear can be rational, but i don't understand where hate would ever be rational. Fear is rational, and at some times useful for survival. I fail to see any survival advantage in hate ... seems to me that it would always be to your advantage to get over it. Whipping up hate against homosexuals is as much of a crime as whipping up hate against Muslims. As to "misplaced moral equivalence", i have no idea what the basis of that is, perhaps it's some virus you caught by your exposure to hate radio.

Hate is probably a meme used to separate oneself from another or something. For example I hate your last statement as "extreme dissing" that a shit-assed person would say. I don't fear it, however.

Seth says

MR 2009-06-12 10:20:06 9977

seth 2009-06-12 10:13:46 9977

MR 2009-06-12 10:00:07 9977

seth 2009-06-12 09:49:27 9977

Hate is probably a meme used to separate oneself from another or something. For example I hate your last statement as "extreme dissing" that a shit-assed person would say. I don't fear it, however.

Hate is an emotion ... it's not a meme. So is fear. Hate mongering, now that could be a meme ... hate mongering and fear mongering is pretty much the same thing ... only difference i can see right away is degree.

Yeah i dissed you ... get over it ... but i am curious, how is designating hate crimes any kind of misplaced moral equivalence ?

Mark de LA says

CNN cranks up the t-word (terrorism; man caused disaster):

PC, Hate, Who hates whom?, Jews, Supremacist?

Holocaust survivors fear museum shooting emboldens others who embrace hatred

Shooting leaves Eva Rich Blumberg pondering whether to deliver speech Sunday

Blumberg: "I couldn't sleep all night because things keep coming back"

Shooting highlights importance of "placing greater emphasis on prejudice, hatred"

Mark de LA says

Well,most of the things I have talked about before like M$M, RWG, big dipper effect, moral equivalence come back to me now. If someone can prove a hate going on he must attempt to be a mind reader. For example how do you distinguish anger from hate. The Golden Rule, especially Luke VI, 40-42 & the extrapolation of 714 are clearly answers.

Seth says

Apparently we all have our preacher problems ...

... this one is preaching intolerance.

My question is: whould Santorum disavow his words or would he speak them himself?

Mark de LA says

The electorate was asleep when Wright said "God Damn America" & Obama got off scott free & he will probably get away with it again. Contrary to your leftie axe grinding Santorum probably won't make it not because he is a Christian but because he recently railed against pornography. Remember Carter was elected after he appeared in Playboy and admitted that he lusted after women. Obama's lies will probably catch up with him this time & it doesn't matter who they run against him I will pretty much vote for someone else. I am not infected with Obamalagnia.

Seth says

source: M above
"The electorate was asleep when Wright said "God Damn America" & Obama got off scott free..."

Wow! ... what world were you living in back in 2008? In my world cable news played Wright's words on infinite loop ... it was talked about for weeks on the blogisphere ... see your own bloviations under jeremiah wright. Finally Obama had to make a speech exclusively about the issue. How can all that tempest translate into "the electorate was asleep & Obama got off scott free" ?

I guess you don't have a thing about writing true sentences.

Mark de LA says

seth 2012-03-20 09:02:06 9977

source: M above
"The electorate was asleep when Wright said "God Damn America" & Obama got off scott free..."

FoxNews perhaps, but the Main Slime Media didn't do much with it & or even CNN (except to try to bury it as no big deal) nor any in depth investigation like you people with heads up the ass are doing with the GOP candidates. For accusations of lies look in the mirror!

Wright & Moore Wrong

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